6 ms·

Two wrongs make a right?

kdkddk 5y ago
esailija 5y ago
It's proof by contradiction. Either you are against bombing innocents or you are not. By holding a stance that only Russia bombing innocents is wrong you are not only for bombing innocents you are also a russophobe at the same time.
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  By holding a stance that only Russia bombing innocents Who is holding that stance? Must every conversation start with a comprehensive list of all unjust things currently occurring anywhere in the world?
  - esailija 5y ago
    > Who is holding that stance? The one who was willing to risk nuclear war for Russian actions, it's above in this comment thread. I am making pretty reasonable guess that the same person was not wanting nuclear war over similar actions of US.
    - bradleyjg 5y ago
      So we’ve gone from proof by contradiction to guess on top of guess. No agenda, right?
  - Viliam1234 5y ago
    I think the tradition is that only conversations about unjust things done by Russia must start with a comprehensive list of all unjust things done by USA. Unjust things done by other countries can be discussed freely.
- simondotau 5y ago
  Hang on, when did anyone in this thread say they were not against bombing innocents? You’re making rather bold assumptions here.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kergonath 5y ago
  It’s not a proof. It begs the question and starts from the assumption that the OP is ok with the US bombing people. Then it uses the dodgy premise that the US is worse than Russia when considering the metric “number of people bombed” (which I assume includes things like Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the Vietnam war, not bothering with details such as the fact that these were actual wars and not unprovoked agressions), ignoring any other metric like “number of killed foreign civilians”, on which Russia, as the proud heir of the USSR, would be vying for the top spot with nazi Germany. So yeah, faulty premise, cherry picking, and circular logic, as well as putting words into someone else’s mouth. It is just sub-standard trolling.
- mads_ravn 5y ago
  One party is currently torturing and murdering civilians, which tends to skew the conversation in a particular direction. Once Russia has withdrawn all troops from Ukraine we can discus behavior of other nations.
  - t-3 5y ago
    Most parties are currently torturing and killing civilians, but some have better PR departments. Guantanamo Bay, Iraq, Aafghanistan, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Venezuela, and the list goes on and on. Nobody cares until white people die though.
    - kergonath 5y ago
      Guantanamo is a stain on the US and will be for the foreseeable future, just like internment camps for Japanese people during WWII. But comparing either with Grozny, Aleppo (seriously, why mention Syria at all?), or Mariupol is either completely disingenuous, or entirely uninformed. It is also a complete false equivalence to compare them to the neo-gulags, just ask Navalny. Which city did the US flatten since Dresden? How many hospitals did they voluntarily bomb? Hell, how many hospitals did the US bomb at all (and no, I don’t assume that number is zero)? Now, compare that to what happened in Karkhiv alone. Playing chicken when Assad used chemical weapons on Syrian civilians and Putin razed Grozny were stupid mistakes. This is not a reason to let the same thing happen again in Ukraine.
FpUser 5y ago
No. But one definitely gets punishment and rightly so. The other never will. They just say fuck you. We are the good guys, we are exceptional and we have the biggest dick. Look what they promised to ICC should they ever try to indict their nationals.
dotancohen 5y ago
> Two wrongs make a right? No. But when the US normalizes a behaviour and other countries follow suit, why are those other countries criticized but the US is not? For what it's worth, I'm on neither side of the Ukraine-Russia debate. Both are horribly corrupt states, and NATO has been prodding Russia over the ex-Soviet states for a decade.
- todorus 5y ago
  Excuse me? Dutchie here, the US have a horrible reputation even among their allies. They are as much criticized as Russia is right now. Maybe even more so considering that we get more imagery from the "exploits" of the US. Stop with this double standard whataboutism, and maybe find some other circles to hang around in: you'll find the critique you wish for there.
  - Razengan 5y ago
    Stop with this double standard hypocrisy, and sanction the US as well if you really care about war crimes etc.

It's proof by contradiction. Either you are against bombing innocents or you are not. By holding a stance that only Russia bombing innocents is wrong you are not only for bombing innocents you are also a russophobe at the same time.

bradleyjg 5y ago
By holding a stance that only Russia bombing innocents Who is holding that stance? Must every conversation start with a comprehensive list of all unjust things currently occurring anywhere in the world?
- esailija 5y ago
  > Who is holding that stance? The one who was willing to risk nuclear war for Russian actions, it's above in this comment thread. I am making pretty reasonable guess that the same person was not wanting nuclear war over similar actions of US.
  - bradleyjg 5y ago
    So we’ve gone from proof by contradiction to guess on top of guess. No agenda, right?
- Viliam1234 5y ago
  I think the tradition is that only conversations about unjust things done by Russia must start with a comprehensive list of all unjust things done by USA. Unjust things done by other countries can be discussed freely.
simondotau 5y ago
Hang on, when did anyone in this thread say they were not against bombing innocents? You’re making rather bold assumptions here.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kergonath 5y ago
It’s not a proof. It begs the question and starts from the assumption that the OP is ok with the US bombing people. Then it uses the dodgy premise that the US is worse than Russia when considering the metric “number of people bombed” (which I assume includes things like Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the Vietnam war, not bothering with details such as the fact that these were actual wars and not unprovoked agressions), ignoring any other metric like “number of killed foreign civilians”, on which Russia, as the proud heir of the USSR, would be vying for the top spot with nazi Germany. So yeah, faulty premise, cherry picking, and circular logic, as well as putting words into someone else’s mouth. It is just sub-standard trolling.
mads_ravn 5y ago
One party is currently torturing and murdering civilians, which tends to skew the conversation in a particular direction. Once Russia has withdrawn all troops from Ukraine we can discus behavior of other nations.
- t-3 5y ago
  Most parties are currently torturing and killing civilians, but some have better PR departments. Guantanamo Bay, Iraq, Aafghanistan, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Venezuela, and the list goes on and on. Nobody cares until white people die though.
  - kergonath 5y ago
    Guantanamo is a stain on the US and will be for the foreseeable future, just like internment camps for Japanese people during WWII. But comparing either with Grozny, Aleppo (seriously, why mention Syria at all?), or Mariupol is either completely disingenuous, or entirely uninformed. It is also a complete false equivalence to compare them to the neo-gulags, just ask Navalny. Which city did the US flatten since Dresden? How many hospitals did they voluntarily bomb? Hell, how many hospitals did the US bomb at all (and no, I don’t assume that number is zero)? Now, compare that to what happened in Karkhiv alone. Playing chicken when Assad used chemical weapons on Syrian civilians and Putin razed Grozny were stupid mistakes. This is not a reason to let the same thing happen again in Ukraine.

FpUser 5y ago

No. But one definitely gets punishment and rightly so. The other never will. They just say fuck you. We are the good guys, we are exceptional and we have the biggest dick. Look what they promised to ICC should they ever try to indict their nationals.

dotancohen 5y ago

> Two wrongs make a right? No. But when the US normalizes a behaviour and other countries follow suit, why are those other countries criticized but the US is not? For what it's worth, I'm on neither side of the Ukraine-Russia debate. Both are horribly corrupt states, and NATO has been prodding Russia over the ex-Soviet states for a decade.

todorus 5y ago
Excuse me? Dutchie here, the US have a horrible reputation even among their allies. They are as much criticized as Russia is right now. Maybe even more so considering that we get more imagery from the "exploits" of the US. Stop with this double standard whataboutism, and maybe find some other circles to hang around in: you'll find the critique you wish for there.
- Razengan 5y ago
  Stop with this double standard hypocrisy, and sanction the US as well if you really care about war crimes etc.