5 ms·

Tldr?

by naoqj 5y ago

Tldr?

c22 5y ago
I had my cat read it to me.
geocrasher 5y ago
How intelligent are cats? Intelligent enough to be the subject of a very long article about feline intelligence which I also did not read in full due to it's excessive length!
smackeyacky 5y ago
Cats and dogs can be roughly assessed as being about the same in intelligence but vary strongly in trainability due to their different motivations. Dogs gain advantage by pack living, cats by loose association. Pack living offers a better platform for coordination and training hence dogs are more motivated to learn tricks. In the past this trainability was associated with intelligence but modern studies indicate trainability and intelligence are not correlated as closely as we used to think. In short: you train a dog, your cat trains you aka the old joke about dogs having masters and cats having staff is probably true.
- naoqj 5y ago
  Thanks, I appreciate it.
- em500 5y ago
  Nice summary. I skimmed the entire article, and it appears to be mainly about explaining why the traditional consensus that cats are less intelligent than dogs would be biased. "Because we judge intelligence by comparing other creatures to ourselves, many popular accounts of cat behaviour describe learning as though cats are mentally defective humans rather than highly specialised carnivores."
- ianai 5y ago
  I wish it had pointed out cats also have fast twitch muscles. Their actions are constrained by this. They thus aren’t going to rush through a maze on a whim or for the chance at a treat.
- hef19898 5y ago
  My personal pet theory is that cats are the only animals ever to domesticate humans.
  - ianai 5y ago
    Agree. That’s how I introduce my cat to his doctors or boarders “he’s trained me very well.”
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    that's funny, but considering the many ways in which humans have mistreated them over the centuries I don't think they really benefited all that much from the relationship https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ritualistic-cat-torture-was-once-a-form-of-town-fun https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ritualistic-cat-tortur...
    - goldenkey 5y ago
      That's just the tip of the iceberg. Cats are often used in gory neurology research. The research is unnecessary and wasteful, most of it just grant-farming. [1] https://www.peta.org/features/uw-madison-cruelty/ https://www.peta.org/features/uw-madison-cruelty/
  - hprotagonist 5y ago
    “I am the Cat who walks by himself, and all places are alike to me. I will not come.”
    - kwhitefoot 5y ago
      I must read the Just So Stories again. Thirty years ago I used to read them to my eldest son when he went to bed.
      - hprotagonist 5y ago
        most of them are very good. "How the whale got his throat" is still the house favorite, but as an adult, man, did i laugh a lot harder at "the butterfly that stamped".
- Brybry 5y ago
  I thought the pack dominance hierarchy concept for wolves, that the article mentions, was observed to be a myth?[1] Wolf packs are generally a monogamous pair with their recent offspring. And feral cats certainly form colonies, though it seems like what research there is has the primary cat social groups being a female and her young and extending from there to multiple females and their young.[2] Really for both wolves/dogs and cats it seems like environment strongly influences social behavior and there is a large amount of variance. [1] https://phys.org/news/2021-04-wolf-dont-alpha-males-females.html https://phys.org/news/2021-04-wolf-dont-alpha-males-females.... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7149619/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7149619/
  - danaris 5y ago
    "Pack living offers a better platform for coordination and training hence dogs are more motivated to learn tricks" does not require a strict dominance hierarchy as was once erroneously thought to exist.
  - User23 5y ago
    > Wolf packs are generally a monogamous pair with their recent offspring. Larger packs have been observed in Yellowstone. I think it’s largely a function of prey density. In a case where family packs merge into a larger pack I imagine somehow the animals work out who the leader is as a necessary condition for cooperation.

Tldr?

by naoqj 5y ago

Tldr?

c22 5y ago

I had my cat read it to me.

geocrasher 5y ago

How intelligent are cats? Intelligent enough to be the subject of a very long article about feline intelligence which I also did not read in full due to it's excessive length!

smackeyacky 5y ago

Cats and dogs can be roughly assessed as being about the same in intelligence but vary strongly in trainability due to their different motivations. Dogs gain advantage by pack living, cats by loose association. Pack living offers a better platform for coordination and training hence dogs are more motivated to learn tricks. In the past this trainability was associated with intelligence but modern studies indicate trainability and intelligence are not correlated as closely as we used to think. In short: you train a dog, your cat trains you aka the old joke about dogs having masters and cats having staff is probably true.

naoqj 5y ago
Thanks, I appreciate it.
em500 5y ago
Nice summary. I skimmed the entire article, and it appears to be mainly about explaining why the traditional consensus that cats are less intelligent than dogs would be biased. "Because we judge intelligence by comparing other creatures to ourselves, many popular accounts of cat behaviour describe learning as though cats are mentally defective humans rather than highly specialised carnivores."
ianai 5y ago
I wish it had pointed out cats also have fast twitch muscles. Their actions are constrained by this. They thus aren’t going to rush through a maze on a whim or for the chance at a treat.
hef19898 5y ago
My personal pet theory is that cats are the only animals ever to domesticate humans.
- ianai 5y ago
  Agree. That’s how I introduce my cat to his doctors or boarders “he’s trained me very well.”
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  that's funny, but considering the many ways in which humans have mistreated them over the centuries I don't think they really benefited all that much from the relationship https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ritualistic-cat-torture-was-once-a-form-of-town-fun https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ritualistic-cat-tortur...
  - goldenkey 5y ago
    That's just the tip of the iceberg. Cats are often used in gory neurology research. The research is unnecessary and wasteful, most of it just grant-farming. [1] https://www.peta.org/features/uw-madison-cruelty/ https://www.peta.org/features/uw-madison-cruelty/
- hprotagonist 5y ago
  “I am the Cat who walks by himself, and all places are alike to me. I will not come.”
  - kwhitefoot 5y ago
    I must read the Just So Stories again. Thirty years ago I used to read them to my eldest son when he went to bed.
    - hprotagonist 5y ago
      most of them are very good. "How the whale got his throat" is still the house favorite, but as an adult, man, did i laugh a lot harder at "the butterfly that stamped".
Brybry 5y ago
I thought the pack dominance hierarchy concept for wolves, that the article mentions, was observed to be a myth?[1] Wolf packs are generally a monogamous pair with their recent offspring. And feral cats certainly form colonies, though it seems like what research there is has the primary cat social groups being a female and her young and extending from there to multiple females and their young.[2] Really for both wolves/dogs and cats it seems like environment strongly influences social behavior and there is a large amount of variance. [1] https://phys.org/news/2021-04-wolf-dont-alpha-males-females.html https://phys.org/news/2021-04-wolf-dont-alpha-males-females.... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7149619/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7149619/
- danaris 5y ago
  "Pack living offers a better platform for coordination and training hence dogs are more motivated to learn tricks" does not require a strict dominance hierarchy as was once erroneously thought to exist.
- User23 5y ago
  > Wolf packs are generally a monogamous pair with their recent offspring. Larger packs have been observed in Yellowstone. I think it’s largely a function of prey density. In a case where family packs merge into a larger pack I imagine somehow the animals work out who the leader is as a necessary condition for cooperation.