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Nobody in the west organized Euromaidan and it was not a coup. Viktor Yanukovych decided to abandon the country on his own without any military intervention. T

Nobody in the west organized Euromaidan and it was not a coup. Viktor Yanukovych decided to abandon the country on his own without any military intervention. The reason for Euromaidan is simple. Ukraine is poor and EU represents the road to prosperity. In 1991, after collapse of Soviet Union, Polish and Ukrainian economies were exactly the same size. The same GDP. Poland made very quick pivot to the west. We decided to join NATO in 1999 and EU in 2004. Last year Polish economy was 3 times bigger than Ukrainian. Nothing good ever comes from the east.

maratc 5y ago
> Nobody in the west organized Euromaidan and it was not a coup. You can listen to the "nobody" organizing the "not a coup" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k
thriftwy 5y ago
Yanukovich decided to flee when an agreement with opposition, co-signed by three ministers of foreign affairs of EU, were just ditched by the crowd and the opposition.
- watwut 5y ago
  After he rejected EU under pressure from Russia, by his own words. Against what quite a lot of Ukraniens wanted, voted for and worked for for a long time. You can't ignore preceeding pressure and meddling from Russia in this story. And despite all the effort to engineer pro Russia sentiment in Ukraine, it never worked, because it is not actually that easy to create large scale support for anything from outside.
  - maratc 5y ago
    > Against what quite a lot of Ukraniens wanted, voted for and worked for for a long time. But in accordance with what quite a lot of other Ukranians wanted, voted for and worked for for a long time. Ukraine is a badly-divided country that has been long in a business of imposing the will of some of their people on all of their people. What will of some was imposed on all changed with time; the fact did not. In similar situation, some of Swiss people wanted more association with Germany while some wanted more association with France or Italy; they wisely decided on neutrality and have been living with that peacefully for hundreds of years, staying out of many wars involving some or all of their neighbors.
    - adrian_b 5y ago
      The Swiss can be more relaxed now, because their mixed national composition has been stable for many hundreds of years and if they had once some grudges against each other, the reasons are forgotten by now. Not so in the territories that are now included in Ukraine. The proportion of the nationalities and their relative wealth has been drastically altered during the last century by Stalin, who moved out many "inferior races", confiscating all their valuable belongings and sending them to much worse places (when not just murdering them), while bringing in Russians to replace them. The Russians colonists have been privileged in comparison with the natives since the beginning, when many have been installed directly in the houses and on the lands from which the former inhabitants had been evicted. Not enough time has passed since then, so there are still living people who remember how it was before any Russian was around. This "badly-divided country" has been created by Stalin less than a century ago. The division is the same as in all the other former parts of the Soviet Union, between the earlier inhabitants of those countries and the Russian colonists who have lost their privileges after the break-up of the Soviet Union. Hopefully, after some more time, the people could become wiser and reach a model of cohabitation like the Swiss, but as long as not only the Russians have never apologized for their former acts, but they also continue with attempts of military invasions of their neighbors at any opportunity, like they have continuously done for many hundreds of years, the Swiss model remains an illusion for the former Soviet republics.
      - maratc 5y ago
        > Stalin, who moved out many "inferior races" Stalin never bothered with races at all. Nazis did. > This "badly-divided country" has been created by Stalin less than a century ago. Now you're just repeating Putin's own words — "Ukraine was created by Soviet Russia". > colonists have been privileged in comparison with the natives The relations between Russians and Ukrainians are not of "colonists" and "natives" — it's fundamentally different from Brits/Hindus, or French/Algerians, or Italians/Ethiopians. They are two branches of the same group of people. The modern Russian state, and its church, both trace themselves to Kiev. Your understanding of Ukraine's history is so factually incorrect, to the point that I don't see a reason to continue this conversation.
Proven 5y ago
itsoktocry 5y ago
>Nobody in the west organized Euromaidan and it was not a coup. The specific details are usually hazy and rarely clear-cut, but there is well documented history of the US involving themselves in all sorts of "coups" and "revolutions". And that involvement doesn't imply that these actions aren't supported in one way or another by segments of the population in the country where they are performed. If there are benefits to the US, they're in there contributing.
pastacacioepepe 5y ago
- dotopotoro 5y ago
  Please read up on what happened just before maidan, how yanukovich decided not to sign treaty with eu at the last minute, obviously against people will.
  - pastacacioepepe 5y ago
    Democratically elected governments do things against the "people's will" all the time. That's not a reason for a coup. As an example, the italian government is forcing us citizens to pay the cost of the sanctions to Russia, which will be really hard on us. Polls show that the large majority of Italians is against applying sanctions on Russia and sending weapons to Ukraine. Should we plan a coup in Italy now?
lenkite 5y ago
Huh, it's pretty well known that the Coup Lady Victoria Nuland played a significant part here in assisting "regime change". The state dept was feeling confident after the successful Arab Spring and were on a roll getting rid of unfriendly governments. (They didn't always succeed at propping up US friendly ones though). Are you going to get absolute, in-controvertible proof ? No, that's certainly not how these things work. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://blazetrends.com/victoria-nuland-a-shadowy-character-in-the-ukraine-crisis/ https://blazetrends.com/victoria-nuland-a-shadowy-character-... https://www.salon.com/2021/01/19/who-is-victoria-nuland-a-really-bad-idea-as-a-key-player-in-bidens-foreign-policy-team/ https://www.salon.com/2021/01/19/who-is-victoria-nuland-a-re... Nuland served as the deputy national advisor to to Vice President Dick Cheney, serving as the principal deputy foreign policy adviser and exercising an influential role during the Iraq War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland Her husband - Robert Kagan is the leading advocate of " "liberal interventionism" and was one of the early and strong advocates of military action in Syria, Iran, Afghanistan as well as to "remove Mr. Hussein and his regime from power". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kagan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kagan I would strongly suggest a reading of history with a deeply skeptical view of US state department. The saddest thing for me was comforting Libyan friends who were in shock after their nation dissolved to ashes - a nation which had universal health care.
- Isinlor 5y ago
  Yes - USA was involved, as was Russia, France, Poland and Germany. I agree that discussing who should and should not be in the government of an independent state is wrong. But there was no coup and Yanukovych himself signed an agreement whose first point stipulated government change, Yanukovych decided to flee on his own and Yanukovych was impeached by democratically elected parliament. USA did not start the protests. The protests started because people, especially around Kyiv, wanted and still want more than ever across the whole Ukraine to join EU. Yanukovych was elected with the promise of joining EU as a strategic goal. At the same time, on 27 February 2014, masked Russian troops without insignia took over the Supreme Council (parliament) of Crimea and captured strategic sites across Crimea. Crimea was annexed on 18 March 2014 by Russia.

maratc 5y ago

> Nobody in the west organized Euromaidan and it was not a coup. You can listen to the "nobody" organizing the "not a coup" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k

thriftwy 5y ago

Yanukovich decided to flee when an agreement with opposition, co-signed by three ministers of foreign affairs of EU, were just ditched by the crowd and the opposition.

watwut 5y ago
After he rejected EU under pressure from Russia, by his own words. Against what quite a lot of Ukraniens wanted, voted for and worked for for a long time. You can't ignore preceeding pressure and meddling from Russia in this story. And despite all the effort to engineer pro Russia sentiment in Ukraine, it never worked, because it is not actually that easy to create large scale support for anything from outside.
- maratc 5y ago
  > Against what quite a lot of Ukraniens wanted, voted for and worked for for a long time. But in accordance with what quite a lot of other Ukranians wanted, voted for and worked for for a long time. Ukraine is a badly-divided country that has been long in a business of imposing the will of some of their people on all of their people. What will of some was imposed on all changed with time; the fact did not. In similar situation, some of Swiss people wanted more association with Germany while some wanted more association with France or Italy; they wisely decided on neutrality and have been living with that peacefully for hundreds of years, staying out of many wars involving some or all of their neighbors.
  - adrian_b 5y ago
    The Swiss can be more relaxed now, because their mixed national composition has been stable for many hundreds of years and if they had once some grudges against each other, the reasons are forgotten by now. Not so in the territories that are now included in Ukraine. The proportion of the nationalities and their relative wealth has been drastically altered during the last century by Stalin, who moved out many "inferior races", confiscating all their valuable belongings and sending them to much worse places (when not just murdering them), while bringing in Russians to replace them. The Russians colonists have been privileged in comparison with the natives since the beginning, when many have been installed directly in the houses and on the lands from which the former inhabitants had been evicted. Not enough time has passed since then, so there are still living people who remember how it was before any Russian was around. This "badly-divided country" has been created by Stalin less than a century ago. The division is the same as in all the other former parts of the Soviet Union, between the earlier inhabitants of those countries and the Russian colonists who have lost their privileges after the break-up of the Soviet Union. Hopefully, after some more time, the people could become wiser and reach a model of cohabitation like the Swiss, but as long as not only the Russians have never apologized for their former acts, but they also continue with attempts of military invasions of their neighbors at any opportunity, like they have continuously done for many hundreds of years, the Swiss model remains an illusion for the former Soviet republics.
    - maratc 5y ago
      > Stalin, who moved out many "inferior races" Stalin never bothered with races at all. Nazis did. > This "badly-divided country" has been created by Stalin less than a century ago. Now you're just repeating Putin's own words — "Ukraine was created by Soviet Russia". > colonists have been privileged in comparison with the natives The relations between Russians and Ukrainians are not of "colonists" and "natives" — it's fundamentally different from Brits/Hindus, or French/Algerians, or Italians/Ethiopians. They are two branches of the same group of people. The modern Russian state, and its church, both trace themselves to Kiev. Your understanding of Ukraine's history is so factually incorrect, to the point that I don't see a reason to continue this conversation.

Proven 5y ago

itsoktocry 5y ago

>Nobody in the west organized Euromaidan and it was not a coup. The specific details are usually hazy and rarely clear-cut, but there is well documented history of the US involving themselves in all sorts of "coups" and "revolutions". And that involvement doesn't imply that these actions aren't supported in one way or another by segments of the population in the country where they are performed. If there are benefits to the US, they're in there contributing.

pastacacioepepe 5y ago

dotopotoro 5y ago
Please read up on what happened just before maidan, how yanukovich decided not to sign treaty with eu at the last minute, obviously against people will.
- pastacacioepepe 5y ago
  Democratically elected governments do things against the "people's will" all the time. That's not a reason for a coup. As an example, the italian government is forcing us citizens to pay the cost of the sanctions to Russia, which will be really hard on us. Polls show that the large majority of Italians is against applying sanctions on Russia and sending weapons to Ukraine. Should we plan a coup in Italy now?

lenkite 5y ago

Huh, it's pretty well known that the Coup Lady Victoria Nuland played a significant part here in assisting "regime change". The state dept was feeling confident after the successful Arab Spring and were on a roll getting rid of unfriendly governments. (They didn't always succeed at propping up US friendly ones though). Are you going to get absolute, in-controvertible proof ? No, that's certainly not how these things work. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://blazetrends.com/victoria-nuland-a-shadowy-character-in-the-ukraine-crisis/ https://blazetrends.com/victoria-nuland-a-shadowy-character-... https://www.salon.com/2021/01/19/who-is-victoria-nuland-a-really-bad-idea-as-a-key-player-in-bidens-foreign-policy-team/ https://www.salon.com/2021/01/19/who-is-victoria-nuland-a-re... Nuland served as the deputy national advisor to to Vice President Dick Cheney, serving as the principal deputy foreign policy adviser and exercising an influential role during the Iraq War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland Her husband - Robert Kagan is the leading advocate of " "liberal interventionism" and was one of the early and strong advocates of military action in Syria, Iran, Afghanistan as well as to "remove Mr. Hussein and his regime from power". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kagan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kagan I would strongly suggest a reading of history with a deeply skeptical view of US state department. The saddest thing for me was comforting Libyan friends who were in shock after their nation dissolved to ashes - a nation which had universal health care.

Isinlor 5y ago
Yes - USA was involved, as was Russia, France, Poland and Germany. I agree that discussing who should and should not be in the government of an independent state is wrong. But there was no coup and Yanukovych himself signed an agreement whose first point stipulated government change, Yanukovych decided to flee on his own and Yanukovych was impeached by democratically elected parliament. USA did not start the protests. The protests started because people, especially around Kyiv, wanted and still want more than ever across the whole Ukraine to join EU. Yanukovych was elected with the promise of joining EU as a strategic goal. At the same time, on 27 February 2014, masked Russian troops without insignia took over the Supreme Council (parliament) of Crimea and captured strategic sites across Crimea. Crimea was annexed on 18 March 2014 by Russia.