6 ms·

>when it carried out worse crimes than Russia ie invading Iraq or Vietnam? With the exception of using chemical weapon (agent orange) and napalm, you gonna hav

by 0dayz 5y ago

>when it carried out worse crimes than Russia ie invading Iraq or Vietnam? With the exception of using chemical weapon (agent orange) and napalm, you gonna have to extrapolate and provide source for your claim.

10xrubberduck 5y ago
If not war crimes, were the wars itself of good end-result? And endless streaks of them - Afghanistan, Libya, Syria.. where next? The person is right, US (and NATO) deserved international outcry, and sanctions as Russians got, but instead everyone accepts their twisted "justifications" for their endless wars.
- KptMarchewa 5y ago
  A lot of them had very positive results, like Korean War or Kosovo.
lozenge 5y ago
Sure, other than the landmines, chemical weapons, and murdering of entire villages, and, and... The US is blameless. Or as Wikipedia puts it: "United States war crimes - This list is incomplete; you can help by adding missing items."
- 10xrubberduck 5y ago
  In future, depleted uranium usage will make it into the list
- ShivShankaran 5y ago
  >Sure, other than the landmines, chemical weapons, and murdering of entire villages, and, and... The US is blameless. no no no ... you cant blame US like that. It's pure as driven snow. It's champion of democracy. Pristine. Flawless.
nnx 5y ago
Remember Abu Ghraib?
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
'Shock and Awe' isn't a war crime simply because the US and the 'coalition of the willing' won. By any objective measure, it's far worse than anything Russia has done so far, which is saying quite a bit.
- Paradigma11 5y ago
  What objective measures are you using? The whole iraq invasion resulted in 7k civilian deaths. Pretty sure the russians are topping that in ukraine. For comparison, another case of shock and awe in recent history was done by russians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1994%E2%80%931995) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1994%E2%80%9... which resulted in the death of approx 6% of the civilian population in Grozny. Its not like Syria or Afghanistan was conducted any different, so this is what we can expect.
  - postsantum 5y ago
    >The whole iraq invasion resulted in 7k civilian deaths Sources other than american tv provide vastly different numbers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
    - Paradigma11 5y ago
      No, they dont. "The Iraq Body Count project (IBC) documented a higher number of civilian deaths up to the end of the major combat phase (May 1, 2003). In a 2005 report,[86] using updated information, the IBC reported that 7,299 civilians are documented to have been killed, primarily by U.S. air and ground forces."
  - Youden 5y ago
    Where are you getting 7k from? Iraq Body Count [0] reports closer to 200k. Even if you use [1] to limit the death count to those caused by coalition forces, you get more than 7k just in 2003. Before you try to discredit it, the main criticism the project has received [2] is that it's undercounting. The current Ukraine civilian death count is only up to 1.5k so far [3], so Russia's got a lot of catching up to do before it can compete with what's happening in Iraq (though I truly hope it doesn't). [0]: https://www.iraqbodycount.org/ https://www.iraqbodycount.org/ [1]: https://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ https://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Iraq_Body_Count_project_(IBC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Ira... [3]: https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/04/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-6-april-2022 https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/04/ukraine-civilian-casua...
austhrow743 5y ago
The invasions are the worse crimes, not necessarily specific acts that happened within them. As garbage as "they're next to us and have some shared history" is for a reason to try to conquer someone, it's still a hundred times better than invading a country on the other side of the planet, turning it in to a war zone for a decade/decades, then leaving when you got bored is.
rado 5y ago
Mỹ Lai massacre
ShivShankaran 5y ago
>With the exception of using chemical weapon (agent orange) and napalm oh ok. We will have to disregard those? Sure champion of democracy worldwide. sure. The emperor is without clothes and the senile old leader is stuttering out nonsense while rabidly protecting his son's assets in Ukraine. But whatever helps you sleep in peace at night.
- 0dayz 5y ago
  Right, if you actually want to read my comment instead of doing as you describe the leader, you might see things differently. Because then you'll notice a few things: a its acknowledgement of certain USA war crimes and b that its tongue in cheek. Although also c and d too its always a good idea to provide sources for any claim (especially heinous acts) and most people associate war crimes with human-by-human acts such as mass rape, genocide and forceful relocation, which I'm genuinely interested in knowing if USA has done such act.

by 0dayz 5y ago

10xrubberduck 5y ago

If not war crimes, were the wars itself of good end-result? And endless streaks of them - Afghanistan, Libya, Syria.. where next? The person is right, US (and NATO) deserved international outcry, and sanctions as Russians got, but instead everyone accepts their twisted "justifications" for their endless wars.

KptMarchewa 5y ago
A lot of them had very positive results, like Korean War or Kosovo.

lozenge 5y ago

Sure, other than the landmines, chemical weapons, and murdering of entire villages, and, and... The US is blameless. Or as Wikipedia puts it: "United States war crimes - This list is incomplete; you can help by adding missing items."

10xrubberduck 5y ago
In future, depleted uranium usage will make it into the list
ShivShankaran 5y ago
>Sure, other than the landmines, chemical weapons, and murdering of entire villages, and, and... The US is blameless. no no no ... you cant blame US like that. It's pure as driven snow. It's champion of democracy. Pristine. Flawless.

nnx 5y ago

Remember Abu Ghraib?

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

'Shock and Awe' isn't a war crime simply because the US and the 'coalition of the willing' won. By any objective measure, it's far worse than anything Russia has done so far, which is saying quite a bit.

Paradigma11 5y ago
What objective measures are you using? The whole iraq invasion resulted in 7k civilian deaths. Pretty sure the russians are topping that in ukraine. For comparison, another case of shock and awe in recent history was done by russians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1994%E2%80%931995) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1994%E2%80%9... which resulted in the death of approx 6% of the civilian population in Grozny. Its not like Syria or Afghanistan was conducted any different, so this is what we can expect.
- postsantum 5y ago
  >The whole iraq invasion resulted in 7k civilian deaths Sources other than american tv provide vastly different numbers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
  - Paradigma11 5y ago
    No, they dont. "The Iraq Body Count project (IBC) documented a higher number of civilian deaths up to the end of the major combat phase (May 1, 2003). In a 2005 report,[86] using updated information, the IBC reported that 7,299 civilians are documented to have been killed, primarily by U.S. air and ground forces."
- Youden 5y ago
  Where are you getting 7k from? Iraq Body Count [0] reports closer to 200k. Even if you use [1] to limit the death count to those caused by coalition forces, you get more than 7k just in 2003. Before you try to discredit it, the main criticism the project has received [2] is that it's undercounting. The current Ukraine civilian death count is only up to 1.5k so far [3], so Russia's got a lot of catching up to do before it can compete with what's happening in Iraq (though I truly hope it doesn't). [0]: https://www.iraqbodycount.org/ https://www.iraqbodycount.org/ [1]: https://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ https://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Iraq_Body_Count_project_(IBC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Ira... [3]: https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/04/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-6-april-2022 https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/04/ukraine-civilian-casua...

austhrow743 5y ago

The invasions are the worse crimes, not necessarily specific acts that happened within them. As garbage as "they're next to us and have some shared history" is for a reason to try to conquer someone, it's still a hundred times better than invading a country on the other side of the planet, turning it in to a war zone for a decade/decades, then leaving when you got bored is.

rado 5y ago

Mỹ Lai massacre

ShivShankaran 5y ago

>With the exception of using chemical weapon (agent orange) and napalm oh ok. We will have to disregard those? Sure champion of democracy worldwide. sure. The emperor is without clothes and the senile old leader is stuttering out nonsense while rabidly protecting his son's assets in Ukraine. But whatever helps you sleep in peace at night.

0dayz 5y ago
Right, if you actually want to read my comment instead of doing as you describe the leader, you might see things differently. Because then you'll notice a few things: a its acknowledgement of certain USA war crimes and b that its tongue in cheek. Although also c and d too its always a good idea to provide sources for any claim (especially heinous acts) and most people associate war crimes with human-by-human acts such as mass rape, genocide and forceful relocation, which I'm genuinely interested in knowing if USA has done such act.