6 ms·

Well what do you suggest? An 80-year old man in Brussels should freeze to death in their apartment because Russia invaded Ukraine?

hyperdunc 5y ago
That's not where most of the gas is going. It would have been smart to invest in energy diversity before the war started. Too late for that now.
- HyprMusic 5y ago
  It is overwhelmingly used for heating, followed by boiling water and cooking. Please spend 5 minutes googling before throwing out baseless claims. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Energy_consumption_in_households#Energy_consumption_in_households_by_type_of_end-use https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
  - empiricus 5y ago
    from the link: "final energy consumption in residential sector" - so it does not include the industrial usage
  - mdorazio 5y ago
    From the Highlights section in your link: "In 2019, households represented 26% of final energy consumption, or 17% of gross inland energy consumption, in the EU". So 74% of consumption is not households. What am I missing?
- MrYellowP 5y ago
  > That's not where most of the gas is going. Translated: It doesn't matter if people freeze, to death or otherwise. I guess you also don't mind food shortages, as long as they don't affect you personally.
  - hyperdunc 5y ago
    Would you turn off all the gas? Are there no other ways to light the metaphorical fire? Isn't it interesting how you admit that the lives of so many depend on natural resources they don't control?
jamesmishra 5y ago
Should people in Ukraine be killed by missiles?
- phero_cnstrcts 5y ago
  No, but that is not the fault of the 80-year old man in Brussels.
  - jamesmishra 5y ago
    I don't think a natural gas tariff would kill anybody in Brussels. Not a single person. But if burnt corpses start piling up in Brussels, I'll come back to this thread and admit to being wrong.
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    The 80-year-old man in this analogy is just a casualty of war, war has consequences, and the response will be emergent and unpredictable.
ilammy 5y ago
You're overdramatizing. At worst, your 80-year old man would get double or triple the heating bill, then probably demand that to be paid from taxes via subsidies. And that is what people don't want.
- munch117 5y ago
  Triple the heating bill is what we're seeing right now for natural gas consumers. The at worst scenario is way beyond that.
- IAmEveryone 5y ago
  Money doesn't create natural gas. If you shut down a pipeline bringing in some amount <x>, and you cannot find a new source to get that amount, somthing has to give, somewhere, you have to use less of the stuff.
  - ilammy 5y ago
    You don't need natural gas for housing heating. Buy an electrical heater, pay "exorbitant" electricity bills, get electricity rerouted from other sources (you could still, like, import coal by sea if you don't like nuclear). True, industrial users can't just start using something else instead of gas in their processes. And if they go out of business, that's production gone, supply chains gone, workplaces gone. Certainly not a good thing, but please – it's not elderly frozen to death by this Christmas.
    - Mountain_Skies 5y ago
      Do electric heaters magically appear? You do know that stores don't stock enough electric heaters for an entire country to go out and buy them, right? An economic and manufacturing powerhouse like the US couldn't even deal with people buying extra toilet paper. What would happen if everyone in the EU all at once tried to buy electric heaters?
      - ilammy 5y ago
madaxe_again 5y ago
How can you expect a man who is warm to understand one who is freezing?
rosndo 5y ago
Why would that 80-year old man just not wear more clothes instead of freezing to death? Is the implication that he lacks the mental capacity to do so because of old age? Does the old man just not own enough clothes? If so, why would gas prices be the problem instead of his lack of clothes?

hyperdunc 5y ago

That's not where most of the gas is going. It would have been smart to invest in energy diversity before the war started. Too late for that now.

HyprMusic 5y ago
It is overwhelmingly used for heating, followed by boiling water and cooking. Please spend 5 minutes googling before throwing out baseless claims. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Energy_consumption_in_households#Energy_consumption_in_households_by_type_of_end-use https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
- empiricus 5y ago
  from the link: "final energy consumption in residential sector" - so it does not include the industrial usage
- mdorazio 5y ago
  From the Highlights section in your link: "In 2019, households represented 26% of final energy consumption, or 17% of gross inland energy consumption, in the EU". So 74% of consumption is not households. What am I missing?
MrYellowP 5y ago
> That's not where most of the gas is going. Translated: It doesn't matter if people freeze, to death or otherwise. I guess you also don't mind food shortages, as long as they don't affect you personally.
- hyperdunc 5y ago
  Would you turn off all the gas? Are there no other ways to light the metaphorical fire? Isn't it interesting how you admit that the lives of so many depend on natural resources they don't control?

jamesmishra 5y ago

Should people in Ukraine be killed by missiles?

phero_cnstrcts 5y ago
No, but that is not the fault of the 80-year old man in Brussels.
- jamesmishra 5y ago
  I don't think a natural gas tariff would kill anybody in Brussels. Not a single person. But if burnt corpses start piling up in Brussels, I'll come back to this thread and admit to being wrong.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  The 80-year-old man in this analogy is just a casualty of war, war has consequences, and the response will be emergent and unpredictable.

ilammy 5y ago

You're overdramatizing. At worst, your 80-year old man would get double or triple the heating bill, then probably demand that to be paid from taxes via subsidies. And that is what people don't want.

munch117 5y ago
Triple the heating bill is what we're seeing right now for natural gas consumers. The at worst scenario is way beyond that.
IAmEveryone 5y ago
Money doesn't create natural gas. If you shut down a pipeline bringing in some amount <x>, and you cannot find a new source to get that amount, somthing has to give, somewhere, you have to use less of the stuff.
- ilammy 5y ago
  You don't need natural gas for housing heating. Buy an electrical heater, pay "exorbitant" electricity bills, get electricity rerouted from other sources (you could still, like, import coal by sea if you don't like nuclear). True, industrial users can't just start using something else instead of gas in their processes. And if they go out of business, that's production gone, supply chains gone, workplaces gone. Certainly not a good thing, but please – it's not elderly frozen to death by this Christmas.
  - Mountain_Skies 5y ago
    Do electric heaters magically appear? You do know that stores don't stock enough electric heaters for an entire country to go out and buy them, right? An economic and manufacturing powerhouse like the US couldn't even deal with people buying extra toilet paper. What would happen if everyone in the EU all at once tried to buy electric heaters?
    - ilammy 5y ago

madaxe_again 5y ago

How can you expect a man who is warm to understand one who is freezing?

rosndo 5y ago

Why would that 80-year old man just not wear more clothes instead of freezing to death? Is the implication that he lacks the mental capacity to do so because of old age? Does the old man just not own enough clothes? If so, why would gas prices be the problem instead of his lack of clothes?