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How Marine Le Pen Conquered Normandy

mytailorisrich 5y ago
It is simplistic to reduce Marine Le Pen to "far right". She is nationalist or maybe what is often called "sovereignist" and anti-establishment and her party is the leading party among the working class. In fact when the Communist Party vote collapsed in the 1990s many actually went from voting Communist Party to voting National Front (her father's party and forerunner to her current party). There are also gays at the very top of the party and sympathisers from all ethnic backgrounds so it's not as simple as the usual stereotype that they must all be racist and intolerant. Lastly, painting the South East as "Paris-hating" to somewhat explain the 'traditionally' good scores for the Le Pens there is simply ridiculous.
- smackeyacky 5y ago
  Well OK, but like every other "populist washed" right leaning demagogues, she "might not be racist" but is #1 with racists. Given her fathers history and the history of the Front National, who knows what they might do when elected.
  - mytailorisrich 5y ago
    No doubt they would implement a policy of stricter immigration controls and assimilation but that's not necessarily 'racist', which is also a cheap angle of attack against them, although I agree that racists are more likely to vote for her or Zemmour. That's a bit like the labeling of people in favour of Brexit as 'racists' here in the UK.
    - smackeyacky 5y ago
      All the racists voted for brexit didn't they? That sotto voce dog whistle stuff has been used for far too long in western democracies like the UK and here in Australia.
      - mytailorisrich 5y ago
        The vast majority of people who voted for Brexit are not racist like the vast majority of people who vote for Le Pen are not racist. I find our reply reductionist and offensive. It illustrates what I was alluding to: they is not attempt to understand the concerns of millions who are just brushed off as 'far right', 'racists', 'uneducated', etc, which only make things worse and can backfire (see Brexit) The debate on key issues has been poisoned. For instance, people are either pro-immigration or they are racist. This is not healthy.
        zozbot234 5y ago
        Racism is actually relatively uncommon in Europe, but English ethnic nationalism (and yes, I do mean English. E.g. the Scots were far more committed to staying in the EU) was a significant factor in Brexiters' anti-immigrationist stance. Pithily stated, their concern was about having white Polish plumbers around, not about "race" per se.
        mytailorisrich 5y ago
        Ethnicity and country of origin is also racism, which is not just based on skin colour, which seems to be an Americanism. I don't think they minded having a Polish plumber around, the concerns were about numbers and the consequences on communities and on wages. This is similar in France where the concern about immigration is also largely about numbers and the social consequences including on national identity. Very crudely, no-one complains if the corner store is owned by an Algerian family, but people start to have issues when the whole area is 'taken over' and local culture is replaced, not least considering the historical background.
        smackeyacky 5y ago
        Nice. A veiled reference to the great replacement conspiracy theory mixed in with "i have an ethnic friend so couldn't possibly be racist" exceptionalism.

It is simplistic to reduce Marine Le Pen to "far right". She is nationalist or maybe what is often called "sovereignist" and anti-establishment and her party is the leading party among the working class. In fact when the Communist Party vote collapsed in the 1990s many actually went from voting Communist Party to voting National Front (her father's party and forerunner to her current party). There are also gays at the very top of the party and sympathisers from all ethnic backgrounds so it's not as simple as the usual stereotype that they must all be racist and intolerant. Lastly, painting the South East as "Paris-hating" to somewhat explain the 'traditionally' good scores for the Le Pens there is simply ridiculous.

smackeyacky 5y ago
Well OK, but like every other "populist washed" right leaning demagogues, she "might not be racist" but is #1 with racists. Given her fathers history and the history of the Front National, who knows what they might do when elected.
- mytailorisrich 5y ago
  No doubt they would implement a policy of stricter immigration controls and assimilation but that's not necessarily 'racist', which is also a cheap angle of attack against them, although I agree that racists are more likely to vote for her or Zemmour. That's a bit like the labeling of people in favour of Brexit as 'racists' here in the UK.
  - smackeyacky 5y ago
    All the racists voted for brexit didn't they? That sotto voce dog whistle stuff has been used for far too long in western democracies like the UK and here in Australia.
    - mytailorisrich 5y ago
      The vast majority of people who voted for Brexit are not racist like the vast majority of people who vote for Le Pen are not racist. I find our reply reductionist and offensive. It illustrates what I was alluding to: they is not attempt to understand the concerns of millions who are just brushed off as 'far right', 'racists', 'uneducated', etc, which only make things worse and can backfire (see Brexit) The debate on key issues has been poisoned. For instance, people are either pro-immigration or they are racist. This is not healthy.
      - zozbot234 5y ago
        Racism is actually relatively uncommon in Europe, but English ethnic nationalism (and yes, I do mean English. E.g. the Scots were far more committed to staying in the EU) was a significant factor in Brexiters' anti-immigrationist stance. Pithily stated, their concern was about having white Polish plumbers around, not about "race" per se.
        mytailorisrich 5y ago
        Ethnicity and country of origin is also racism, which is not just based on skin colour, which seems to be an Americanism. I don't think they minded having a Polish plumber around, the concerns were about numbers and the consequences on communities and on wages. This is similar in France where the concern about immigration is also largely about numbers and the social consequences including on national identity. Very crudely, no-one complains if the corner store is owned by an Algerian family, but people start to have issues when the whole area is 'taken over' and local culture is replaced, not least considering the historical background.
        smackeyacky 5y ago
        Nice. A veiled reference to the great replacement conspiracy theory mixed in with "i have an ethnic friend so couldn't possibly be racist" exceptionalism.