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Speaking as someone who likes rock climbing and also road trips, I'm not sure what the alternative is. Even in Europe (especially in Europe), you need a 4-wheel

Speaking as someone who likes rock climbing and also road trips, I'm not sure what the alternative is. Even in Europe (especially in Europe), you need a 4-wheel drive to access most of the climbing areas. I live in Canada and currently just have a hybrid, but it does limit me in what areas I can drive to for climbing

ericmay 5y ago
Simple, we don’t optimize for edge cases. I live in the suburbs. You know how many people around here have 4wd Jeeps for their commute to the office that they have never taken “off road” a single time? The solution is someone like you who does outdoor stuff may shell out for a 4wd vehicle. That’s OK!! You just park it in your neighborhood or in your garage like everyone else. The majority of people who don’t do these activities just walk and bike around and probably take their hatchback to visit someone once in awhile or pick up a larger piece of furniture.
wasmitnetzen 5y ago
If you don't go climbing daily, access to good car sharing will do just fine. It is probably cheaper, as you'll only need to shell out for a 4x4 when you actually need it.
euro_climber123 5y ago
I don't agree with that statement. Here is a list of top sport-climbing and bouldering destinations that will not require a 4-wheel drive (source: me and my car). - Frankenjura - Elbsandstein - Margalef - Siurana - Chulilla - Albarracin - Finale - Osp - Kalymnos - Leonidio - Ceuse - St Leger - Gorges du Tarn - Les Calanques - Buoux - Fontainebleau As for multi-pitch climbing: almost everything in the Alps is accessible with a normal car and the customary approach (or a cable car).
- vondur 5y ago
  This isn’t the case here in the US. We have thousands of miles of off road areas that aren’t accessible to non off road vehicles. But I do agree that a large portion of people here in the US that have huge lifted vehicles never go off road.
  - pcthrowaway 5y ago
    I've climbed in Canada, Italy, Germany, and Greece (but not a ton in Italy), and it seems like Greece especially has many climbing areas that are hard to access without a 4wd. I traveled around in a rental and bottomed out so many times, but also had to just give up and turn around on several occasions. It's been a while since I climbed in Italy, but I remember it being pretty similar. Admittedly, the limited climbing in Germany I did had pretty good parking access. I suspect there are many European countries whose climbing access is more like Greece though.
    - euro_climber123 5y ago
      No need to suspect anything. My list included the major climbing areas of Europes major climbing countries and none of them require a four-wheel drive. Even some of the more secluded Swiss areas (Gimmelwald, Rawyl) are easily accessible in a camper van. And I know that for a fact, because I've been there myself.
trainsarebetter 5y ago
In bc? the amount of climbing is insane, Most is non 4x4. But also depends what you mean by 4x4 accesses. Some better tires and then maybe a lift kit covers 99%.
- pcthrowaway 5y ago
  Yeah, I'm in BC, and not having 4x4 limits you a lot. I got stuck trying to get up Mt. Maxwell (the climbing area on Salt spring) in a civic. Bottomed out a lot / damaged my car a lot on Vancouver island / Sunshine Coast, and just can't get somewhere remote like Eldred Valley in Powell River. Of course, most of Squamish is accessible, and Skaha, so yes, there's tons of climbing, but the "well-traveled" areas are realistically <50% of all potential climbing, and not the same experience as climbing remote.
  - trainsarebetter 5y ago
    Again some better tires and a lift. The gambler 500 is a good indication of what a small shit box can do with better tires. I lifted my small old Subaru, and some at tires. was a nicer ride than most trucks, and snaked into more places they couldn’t
- smaryjerry 5y ago
  As a kid in the US it seemed silly that so many people had SUVs in a city, and as adult I wouldn’t buy anything but an SUV. Once you grow up you realize how nice the ability to transport more people and more things is. Picking up groceries, moving, buying even a TV or any type of furniture. Having to move every other year because your apartments rent went up and once owning a home the number of home improvements that require going back and forth to Home Depot.. then there’s bad weather, snow if your up north. If anything I’d be more inclined to remove cars and keep SUVs now because the utility is more than double and the price is only slightly more. A car is like a knife in your pocket, handy to have for various things, but an SUV is like a Swiss Army knife. Cross-over SUVs are perfect because they are literally just cars with bigger bodies.
  - 5y ago

ericmay 5y ago

Simple, we don’t optimize for edge cases. I live in the suburbs. You know how many people around here have 4wd Jeeps for their commute to the office that they have never taken “off road” a single time? The solution is someone like you who does outdoor stuff may shell out for a 4wd vehicle. That’s OK!! You just park it in your neighborhood or in your garage like everyone else. The majority of people who don’t do these activities just walk and bike around and probably take their hatchback to visit someone once in awhile or pick up a larger piece of furniture.

wasmitnetzen 5y ago

If you don't go climbing daily, access to good car sharing will do just fine. It is probably cheaper, as you'll only need to shell out for a 4x4 when you actually need it.

euro_climber123 5y ago

I don't agree with that statement. Here is a list of top sport-climbing and bouldering destinations that will not require a 4-wheel drive (source: me and my car). - Frankenjura - Elbsandstein - Margalef - Siurana - Chulilla - Albarracin - Finale - Osp - Kalymnos - Leonidio - Ceuse - St Leger - Gorges du Tarn - Les Calanques - Buoux - Fontainebleau As for multi-pitch climbing: almost everything in the Alps is accessible with a normal car and the customary approach (or a cable car).

vondur 5y ago
This isn’t the case here in the US. We have thousands of miles of off road areas that aren’t accessible to non off road vehicles. But I do agree that a large portion of people here in the US that have huge lifted vehicles never go off road.
- pcthrowaway 5y ago
  I've climbed in Canada, Italy, Germany, and Greece (but not a ton in Italy), and it seems like Greece especially has many climbing areas that are hard to access without a 4wd. I traveled around in a rental and bottomed out so many times, but also had to just give up and turn around on several occasions. It's been a while since I climbed in Italy, but I remember it being pretty similar. Admittedly, the limited climbing in Germany I did had pretty good parking access. I suspect there are many European countries whose climbing access is more like Greece though.
  - euro_climber123 5y ago
    No need to suspect anything. My list included the major climbing areas of Europes major climbing countries and none of them require a four-wheel drive. Even some of the more secluded Swiss areas (Gimmelwald, Rawyl) are easily accessible in a camper van. And I know that for a fact, because I've been there myself.

trainsarebetter 5y ago

In bc? the amount of climbing is insane, Most is non 4x4. But also depends what you mean by 4x4 accesses. Some better tires and then maybe a lift kit covers 99%.

pcthrowaway 5y ago
Yeah, I'm in BC, and not having 4x4 limits you a lot. I got stuck trying to get up Mt. Maxwell (the climbing area on Salt spring) in a civic. Bottomed out a lot / damaged my car a lot on Vancouver island / Sunshine Coast, and just can't get somewhere remote like Eldred Valley in Powell River. Of course, most of Squamish is accessible, and Skaha, so yes, there's tons of climbing, but the "well-traveled" areas are realistically <50% of all potential climbing, and not the same experience as climbing remote.
- trainsarebetter 5y ago
  Again some better tires and a lift. The gambler 500 is a good indication of what a small shit box can do with better tires. I lifted my small old Subaru, and some at tires. was a nicer ride than most trucks, and snaked into more places they couldn’t
smaryjerry 5y ago
As a kid in the US it seemed silly that so many people had SUVs in a city, and as adult I wouldn’t buy anything but an SUV. Once you grow up you realize how nice the ability to transport more people and more things is. Picking up groceries, moving, buying even a TV or any type of furniture. Having to move every other year because your apartments rent went up and once owning a home the number of home improvements that require going back and forth to Home Depot.. then there’s bad weather, snow if your up north. If anything I’d be more inclined to remove cars and keep SUVs now because the utility is more than double and the price is only slightly more. A car is like a knife in your pocket, handy to have for various things, but an SUV is like a Swiss Army knife. Cross-over SUVs are perfect because they are literally just cars with bigger bodies.
- 5y ago