5 ms·

While thks article is quite interesting, I think it's worth pointing out the vast differences in non-car accessibility between countries, probably due to zoning

While thks article is quite interesting, I think it's worth pointing out the vast differences in non-car accessibility between countries, probably due to zoning laws. Large and low-density population places would require reliable modes of long distance transport (be it cars or buses or metro etc). From what I've heard North America practically requires car ownership outside medium sized cities. Here in the Netherlands you can mostly get anywhere in the country with a bike and a train (OV) card. Back home in India not too many people have cars so buses, trains and taxis and autorickshaws (aka TukTuks) substitute them. Not criticizing the point of the article, but I think a bit more nuance is needed when comparing Germany with Canada with New Zealand. Also, I'd highly recommend checking out Not Just Bikes on YouTube, and perhaps the more "radical" r/fuckcars on reddit.

k8sToGo 5y ago
Here in Switzerland it often takes 2x as much time to get anywhere if you take public transportation outside of big cities, compared to the car. Is it the same in the Netherlands? Also public transportation here is quite expensive.
- user_7832 5y ago
  I can't comment on small towns, but I live in a medium-ish size place of around 100k people though it really depends how far you're going. If you're going just a few (<10) km then cars would be a bit faster. On Google maps I see that it takes 9 minutes to a store 6km away by car. It takes 36 minutes by public transport, however it takes only 20 minutes by bike (almost everyone has a bike here). However a lot of roads are bike-only or similar (esp in parts of the city centre), which (imo) makes it super frustrating to drive. On longer distances yes cars do get much faster. Amsterdam to Rotterdam by car is 52 mins (74km), vs 1hr18min by train, however this was station to station. Once you add the time to go from the station to your destination it's often longer. Edit - re:costs, it feels moderately expensive to me as an Indian. It's €5.4 from Rotterdam to Den Haag (Hague) station, which is 21km by road (20 min by road, 30 min by train). You get 20-30% off passes for monthly use I believe, though that's only useful if you use it a lot.
  - kitkat_new 5y ago
    Though, if you go by train, you can use the time more productively than by going by car (at least until autonomous cars). I have come to know a professor working using her notebook in the train while biking to the train station with the bike, and to the university, too.
- jonasdegendt 5y ago
  > it often takes 2x as much time to get anywhere if you take public transportation outside of big cities This is almost always going to be true, regardless of the country. Living in the countryside is always going to mean inefficiencies in terms of transportation. I couldn't say how you'd solve this, just increasing buses and trains is just too cost ineffective given how sparsely populated most of these areas are. I do align with the whole anti-car crowd when it comes to cities though. We should encourage and enable people to use literally anything other than a car for city movement. Anecdotal but I know plenty of people that'll take their car for all kinds of stupid small trips that could've been at most a 10 minute bicycle ride. Getting to sit in your car and pressing a little pedal sure is comfortable, and I feel like it's impossible to get people out of the mindset that using another mode of transportation is better for them, as well as everyone around them. All these little trips such as getting groceries once a week, driving across town to go see a friend, etc., really do accumulate to be a problem and you end up with cars littering streets left and right. And then we're not even talking about health yet. In a city at least, the benefits of car ownership for the individual, take far too big a toll on a the livability of a city as a whole.
  - k8sToGo 5y ago
    My dream would be that I could take my car to an edge location of a big city with a modern parking structure, where I can of course charge my electric car, and then switch without hassle over to some fast Metro that is going every few minutes. I have never understood the idea of people who live in the city taking the car within the same big city to do stuff. That just makes no sense in most cases.
asdff 5y ago
It's more useful to think of it as a sliding scale vs all or nothing. You are right that there just isn't the infrastructure in a lot of places. But we could start small, we could add a bus route, or a bike lane. Maybe that leads to people taking the bike for that errand instead of solely the car, and that's a good thing even if its not 100% car free.

k8sToGo 5y ago

Here in Switzerland it often takes 2x as much time to get anywhere if you take public transportation outside of big cities, compared to the car. Is it the same in the Netherlands? Also public transportation here is quite expensive.

user_7832 5y ago
I can't comment on small towns, but I live in a medium-ish size place of around 100k people though it really depends how far you're going. If you're going just a few (<10) km then cars would be a bit faster. On Google maps I see that it takes 9 minutes to a store 6km away by car. It takes 36 minutes by public transport, however it takes only 20 minutes by bike (almost everyone has a bike here). However a lot of roads are bike-only or similar (esp in parts of the city centre), which (imo) makes it super frustrating to drive. On longer distances yes cars do get much faster. Amsterdam to Rotterdam by car is 52 mins (74km), vs 1hr18min by train, however this was station to station. Once you add the time to go from the station to your destination it's often longer. Edit - re:costs, it feels moderately expensive to me as an Indian. It's €5.4 from Rotterdam to Den Haag (Hague) station, which is 21km by road (20 min by road, 30 min by train). You get 20-30% off passes for monthly use I believe, though that's only useful if you use it a lot.
- kitkat_new 5y ago
  Though, if you go by train, you can use the time more productively than by going by car (at least until autonomous cars). I have come to know a professor working using her notebook in the train while biking to the train station with the bike, and to the university, too.
jonasdegendt 5y ago
> it often takes 2x as much time to get anywhere if you take public transportation outside of big cities This is almost always going to be true, regardless of the country. Living in the countryside is always going to mean inefficiencies in terms of transportation. I couldn't say how you'd solve this, just increasing buses and trains is just too cost ineffective given how sparsely populated most of these areas are. I do align with the whole anti-car crowd when it comes to cities though. We should encourage and enable people to use literally anything other than a car for city movement. Anecdotal but I know plenty of people that'll take their car for all kinds of stupid small trips that could've been at most a 10 minute bicycle ride. Getting to sit in your car and pressing a little pedal sure is comfortable, and I feel like it's impossible to get people out of the mindset that using another mode of transportation is better for them, as well as everyone around them. All these little trips such as getting groceries once a week, driving across town to go see a friend, etc., really do accumulate to be a problem and you end up with cars littering streets left and right. And then we're not even talking about health yet. In a city at least, the benefits of car ownership for the individual, take far too big a toll on a the livability of a city as a whole.
- k8sToGo 5y ago
  My dream would be that I could take my car to an edge location of a big city with a modern parking structure, where I can of course charge my electric car, and then switch without hassle over to some fast Metro that is going every few minutes. I have never understood the idea of people who live in the city taking the car within the same big city to do stuff. That just makes no sense in most cases.

asdff 5y ago

It's more useful to think of it as a sliding scale vs all or nothing. You are right that there just isn't the infrastructure in a lot of places. But we could start small, we could add a bus route, or a bike lane. Maybe that leads to people taking the bike for that errand instead of solely the car, and that's a good thing even if its not 100% car free.