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> Technology has made it possible to be a more effective manager and leader. How so? I've built a few different organizations now and each time I've found tha

> Technology has made it possible to be a more effective manager and leader. How so? I've built a few different organizations now and each time I've found that I need to introduce a middle management layer somewhere around 18 and 24 engineers. The limit is always things that are really hard to automate or replace with technology like 1 on 1s, keeping a pulse on how the team is feeling, coaching people on career growth, etc.

AndrewDucker 5y ago
You no longer have to spend 5 minutes walking between meeting rooms and can now go straight from one meeting to another with no time to collect your thoughts at all!
- bin_bash 5y ago
  I understood that as 18-24 engineers in a company, not per manager.
newsclues 5y ago
Cars and planes made multi site management more effective. Phones, cellphones, email, etc have all made management communication more effective. Address book in your iPhone is faster than your secretary, a Rolodex and the switchboard. Automate the easy stuff, and have the management do the human leadership tasks. I’d ask the engineers what else can be done differently but maybe you have implemented lean leadership already.
- kkfx 5y ago
  Beware a thing: the classic production of the '900 manufacturing industry do just require organization because anything is done on the assembly line, but creative works (witch means anything not already designed and now in mass production stage) is another thing. You can't subdivide a problem in tasks effectively until you figure out how to solve it in the first place, you can't easy share ideas quickly without "work's social life" etc. To be more precise, it's doable but demand years of experience, our society except for very few jobs lack such experience and as always anyone want young people with decade of experience behind...
ineptech 5y ago
And in my experience, if more than 5 people are working together to do the same thing, one of them is going to be the manager, whether you call them that or not. We do it intentionally and explicitly because that's more likely to lead to a good manager then just letting someone take charge.
- jghn 5y ago
  I don't think that contradicts what GP is saying, or perhaps I misunderstand them. 5 directs per manager. So 10 engineers = 2 managers. But at 25 engineers you have 5 managers, and now you've maxed out their manager. Either way, my experience has been 5-10 directs as the sweet spot. 12-15 is fine but really pushing things. Beyond that, you need more structure.

AndrewDucker 5y ago

You no longer have to spend 5 minutes walking between meeting rooms and can now go straight from one meeting to another with no time to collect your thoughts at all!

bin_bash 5y ago
I understood that as 18-24 engineers in a company, not per manager.

newsclues 5y ago

Cars and planes made multi site management more effective. Phones, cellphones, email, etc have all made management communication more effective. Address book in your iPhone is faster than your secretary, a Rolodex and the switchboard. Automate the easy stuff, and have the management do the human leadership tasks. I’d ask the engineers what else can be done differently but maybe you have implemented lean leadership already.

kkfx 5y ago
Beware a thing: the classic production of the '900 manufacturing industry do just require organization because anything is done on the assembly line, but creative works (witch means anything not already designed and now in mass production stage) is another thing. You can't subdivide a problem in tasks effectively until you figure out how to solve it in the first place, you can't easy share ideas quickly without "work's social life" etc. To be more precise, it's doable but demand years of experience, our society except for very few jobs lack such experience and as always anyone want young people with decade of experience behind...

ineptech 5y ago

And in my experience, if more than 5 people are working together to do the same thing, one of them is going to be the manager, whether you call them that or not. We do it intentionally and explicitly because that's more likely to lead to a good manager then just letting someone take charge.

jghn 5y ago
I don't think that contradicts what GP is saying, or perhaps I misunderstand them. 5 directs per manager. So 10 engineers = 2 managers. But at 25 engineers you have 5 managers, and now you've maxed out their manager. Either way, my experience has been 5-10 directs as the sweet spot. 12-15 is fine but really pushing things. Beyond that, you need more structure.