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I often wonder if Bush would have been reelected if the U.S. was not attacked. There is nothing like "war" to bring a country together.

JshWright 5y ago
The Iraq war still would have happened.
toyg 5y ago
It is almost a given that he wouldn't have. He had squeezed through on the technicalities of the electoral college (not unlike Trump), significantly losing the popular vote (also considering that the hard-left Nader had his best result ever, attracting 3m votes and forever discrediting the wisdom of voting for a third-party candidate). GWB's ratings pre-9/11 were consistently low almost from the start. He set up a cabinet of old-school industrialist cronies, led by Dick Cheney, focused largely on exploiting energy markets and neutering antitrust laws, and substantially expanded the doctrine on executive privilege to block laws he didn't like or hide Cheney's shenanigans. Then 9/11 happened, he made the best of the photo ops, and then rode a wave of proto-fascism all the way to Katrina.
KerrAvon 5y ago
He would not have. He was an unpopular buffoon, and a lot of the population viewed him as illegitimate due to the Supreme Court effectively appointing him over Gore. (In fairness, Gore did win the count once all of the counting was complete, so the population had a point here.) Before 9/11, there was a sitcom about how incompetent he was [1]. And no, there would not have been an Iraq war, because even if hypothetical President Gore hadn’t been able to ramp up security after the “bin laden determined to strike in the US”, he wouldn’t have immediately invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. The Bush administration pushed the lies that sold it to the world. And they knew it was bullshit. Gore definitely wouldn’t have done that bit. 1. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That's_My_Bush https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That's_My_Bush!
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  > a lot of the population viewed him as illegitimate due to the Supreme Court effectively appointing him over Gore. That may have been the perception, but that's not an accurate reflection of what the Supreme Court actually decided. They decided two things. First, the Supreme Court ruled (by a 7-2 vote) that Gore could not selectively recount. Gore was very carefully asking for recounts in precincts where he was likely to gain votes, and not asking for recounts in precincts where Bush would be likely to gain votes. The court ruled that he couldn't do that. He had to recount generally, not super-selectively. Second, the court ruled (by a 5-4 vote) that he couldn't keep recounting forever. Florida had to have an answer to give to the Electoral College; if they missed the deadline, that would disenfranchise the entire state of Florida. The court ruled that they had to stop recounting and produce an answer. Look at Trump's attempts to recount in Arizona and Wisconsin months to years after the vote was over. Think what would happen if those were official recounts, and we were having to wait on them. That's what the court voted against. > In fairness, Gore did win the count once all of the counting was complete When the unofficial recount done by the press was finished - months after the Electoral College vote - yes, Gore won... by two votes. Would that have been the result of an official recount? Hard to say, but I bet the margin of error of the press operation was higher than two votes.
  - tasty_freeze 5y ago
    You have left out some details. Even though the closeness of the initial results triggered an automatic recount across every county in Florida, not all of them did. The infamous "butterfly ballot" in Palm Beach diverted something like 15% of the vote to Pat Buchanan. Even Buchanan said his votes were unearned due to the construction of the ballot. Bush was listed first and voting for him was unambiguous; Gore was listed second under Bush, but to vote for him one had to punch the 3rd hole down. Buchanan was the first name on the right hand page and the hole corresponding to him was the 2nd one down. The Florida Republican party (and the GOP broadly) did everything to stop the recount, attempting to run out the clock. The Florida supreme court ultimately sided with Gore's claim that the stoppage was illegal, but weeks had already gone by. In your telling Gore kept counting over and over. Finally, there is the way Florida scrubbed the rolls of "illegal" voters. By Florida law, ex-felons were not allowed to vote, even though they had completed their sentences. However, the scrubbing wasn't in good faith. The Secretary of State intentionally did the scrub weeks before the election so there wouldn't be enough time to fix any problems that came up. The majority of the scrubbed votes were not ex-felons, and overwhelmingly those affected were likely to vote D (if they voted). For instance, if your name was D'Andre Weber born in 1975, your name was removed from the list if Florida found any D'Andre Weber born in 1975 anywhere in the country; no effort was made to be more specific. Kathrine Harris was not only the Florida Secretary of State, but she was also co-chair of Bush's Florida reelection committee.

JshWright 5y ago

The Iraq war still would have happened.

toyg 5y ago

It is almost a given that he wouldn't have. He had squeezed through on the technicalities of the electoral college (not unlike Trump), significantly losing the popular vote (also considering that the hard-left Nader had his best result ever, attracting 3m votes and forever discrediting the wisdom of voting for a third-party candidate). GWB's ratings pre-9/11 were consistently low almost from the start. He set up a cabinet of old-school industrialist cronies, led by Dick Cheney, focused largely on exploiting energy markets and neutering antitrust laws, and substantially expanded the doctrine on executive privilege to block laws he didn't like or hide Cheney's shenanigans. Then 9/11 happened, he made the best of the photo ops, and then rode a wave of proto-fascism all the way to Katrina.

KerrAvon 5y ago

He would not have. He was an unpopular buffoon, and a lot of the population viewed him as illegitimate due to the Supreme Court effectively appointing him over Gore. (In fairness, Gore did win the count once all of the counting was complete, so the population had a point here.) Before 9/11, there was a sitcom about how incompetent he was [1]. And no, there would not have been an Iraq war, because even if hypothetical President Gore hadn’t been able to ramp up security after the “bin laden determined to strike in the US”, he wouldn’t have immediately invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. The Bush administration pushed the lies that sold it to the world. And they knew it was bullshit. Gore definitely wouldn’t have done that bit. 1. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That's_My_Bush https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That's_My_Bush!

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
> a lot of the population viewed him as illegitimate due to the Supreme Court effectively appointing him over Gore. That may have been the perception, but that's not an accurate reflection of what the Supreme Court actually decided. They decided two things. First, the Supreme Court ruled (by a 7-2 vote) that Gore could not selectively recount. Gore was very carefully asking for recounts in precincts where he was likely to gain votes, and not asking for recounts in precincts where Bush would be likely to gain votes. The court ruled that he couldn't do that. He had to recount generally, not super-selectively. Second, the court ruled (by a 5-4 vote) that he couldn't keep recounting forever. Florida had to have an answer to give to the Electoral College; if they missed the deadline, that would disenfranchise the entire state of Florida. The court ruled that they had to stop recounting and produce an answer. Look at Trump's attempts to recount in Arizona and Wisconsin months to years after the vote was over. Think what would happen if those were official recounts, and we were having to wait on them. That's what the court voted against. > In fairness, Gore did win the count once all of the counting was complete When the unofficial recount done by the press was finished - months after the Electoral College vote - yes, Gore won... by two votes. Would that have been the result of an official recount? Hard to say, but I bet the margin of error of the press operation was higher than two votes.
- tasty_freeze 5y ago
  You have left out some details. Even though the closeness of the initial results triggered an automatic recount across every county in Florida, not all of them did. The infamous "butterfly ballot" in Palm Beach diverted something like 15% of the vote to Pat Buchanan. Even Buchanan said his votes were unearned due to the construction of the ballot. Bush was listed first and voting for him was unambiguous; Gore was listed second under Bush, but to vote for him one had to punch the 3rd hole down. Buchanan was the first name on the right hand page and the hole corresponding to him was the 2nd one down. The Florida Republican party (and the GOP broadly) did everything to stop the recount, attempting to run out the clock. The Florida supreme court ultimately sided with Gore's claim that the stoppage was illegal, but weeks had already gone by. In your telling Gore kept counting over and over. Finally, there is the way Florida scrubbed the rolls of "illegal" voters. By Florida law, ex-felons were not allowed to vote, even though they had completed their sentences. However, the scrubbing wasn't in good faith. The Secretary of State intentionally did the scrub weeks before the election so there wouldn't be enough time to fix any problems that came up. The majority of the scrubbed votes were not ex-felons, and overwhelmingly those affected were likely to vote D (if they voted). For instance, if your name was D'Andre Weber born in 1975, your name was removed from the list if Florida found any D'Andre Weber born in 1975 anywhere in the country; no effort was made to be more specific. Kathrine Harris was not only the Florida Secretary of State, but she was also co-chair of Bush's Florida reelection committee.