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Serious question, and maybe this is just based on the people I've met: I've been hearing lots of business owners complaining about California's labor laws getti

Serious question, and maybe this is just based on the people I've met: I've been hearing lots of business owners complaining about California's labor laws getting increasingly hostile which leads companies to relocate or move as many resources they can outside of CA, much like Tesla did. Does anyone else share that sentiment? I personally think that this is well-intentioned but has consequences that need to be thought out before it becomes law.

_boffin_ 5y ago
I have an extremely close friend, who is at the C-Level, that just shocked me with news of moving to Boulder, Colorado due to the hostile California laws. I haven't gone in detail with him about what laws/ordinances are specifically having him move there, but yeah...
- enduroman 5y ago
  Company I'm at moved headquarters from CA to TX. A bunch of execs left CA too with the relocation. Only people staying are the ones who love SF.
- rhexs 5y ago
  Boulder is California-light. Colorado doesn’t yet have the endemic corruption you get with uniparty states like California, but with all the Californians moving there and doing the same thing, it’s coming. The rise in homelessness in Boulder in just the past few years is amazing.
  - chiefofgxbxl 5y ago
    I lived in Highlands Ranch, CO for roughly half a year, and man the suburban sprawl in anything outside of Boulder is on steroids. My impression of Colorado is that it's a "hot" place to be right now (very much hyped as the place to escape to), but that will in time be expended as housing costs skyrocket and no new housing can be built because everything is interconnected by a 6-8 lane highway. Reference: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Highlands+Ranch,+CO/@39.5527613,-105.0076964,1257m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x876c82f082d15d0b:0x11f163cd6b8cdb49!8m2!3d39.5480789!4d-104.9739333 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Highlands+Ranch,+CO/@39.55...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
88913527 5y ago
I don't necessarily share the sentiment, but I am curious to hear the case for the consequences. California is basically its own economy: the state can make its own rules, so from my perspective, the state has more power to set the rules. Other states, at best, can market themselves as "not California"-- something to run from, but not necessarily something to run to.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Indeed, California is the fifth largest economy in the world, ahead of the UK and India (based on GDP).
  - newaccount2021 5y ago
- BlueTankEngine 5y ago
  I think there most certainly is something to run to. Lower taxes, less regulations to comply with, state-level offices willing to get on the phone and make things happen to bring innovative businesses to the state, lower cost of living, better weather. Whether or not you think all these things are good things for a state to have, or whether you think Texas represents your values, it most definitely offers something to run to, even in a world without California.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> I've been hearing lots of business owners complaining about California's labor laws getting increasingly hostile which leads companies to relocate or move as many resources they can outside of CA I’m almost 50, and I’ve been hearing and reading lots of this my whole life. But somehow California’s economy keeps doing well, even without being one of the places that are winning the battle to attract the firms that are optimizing for maximally emoployee-hostile labor laws.
- enriquec 5y ago
  economy doing well? are you telling me that cities that are completely unaffordable and overrun with crime, homelessness, and drug abuse - along with mass exodus - are signs of a healthy economy? I live here. I'm fighting the good fight - and it isn't working. It's getting worse every day.
  - voxl 5y ago
    Why are they signs of an unhealthy economy? Gentrification and bad zoning laws alone could explain many of your examples.
    - enriquec 5y ago
      Weird comment. Could you define gentrification? For decades, "Gentrification" has the go-to for the people that applaud tesla leaving and Amazon being rejected by New York. Ironically, those same people are strong proponents of zoning and centralized planning of the whole state. Pretty fed up with their outsized control and demonization of anyone that tries to make things better.
      - throw_nbvc1234 5y ago
        Death tax vs estate tax. Immigration vs international talent acquisition. UBI vs Freedom Dividend. Gentrification vs Multi-family zoning. The (twitter centric) left would make much more progress in America if they worked on better messaging instead of just relying on moral arguments.
junofan 5y ago
We took our business elsewhere. It’s becoming crazytown back there.
me_me_mu_mu 5y ago
I feel like these trends are waves and we are currently in the down trend. I think we’ll see a bigger uptrend once the economy stabilizes again. We are in a multi prong proxy battle between energy sources and work/life shift. Once people figure out this change I’m sure things will get better as they did for other cities like nyc. Things were really awful back in the day and got better, then got worse, then got better again. Also, companies might move their headquarters to Texas or whatever but people deep down (workers and probably also the company owners) prefer the lifestyle and experiences that California offers. California coast cities are amazingly beautiful and offer diverse range of activities outdoors and venue wise, and no massive McMansion in 100 degree Texas heat where you have AC blasting and Have to drive eight lane highways everywhere will ever replace the fact you can just hop on your bicycle and ride five min to the beach. I’m just going off anecdote from friends here.
- jandrewrogers 5y ago
  > you can just hop on your bicycle and ride five min to the beach I can assure you that the percentage of Californians that enjoy this lifestyle is vanishingly small. I've lived in all three coastal metros in California, was an avid user of the beach and hate driving; this lifestyle is not realistically achievable for most people that live there, even the average person in tech. Most engineers aren't trading a house in Santa Monica for a house in Texas. They are trading a house in South San Jose. That lifestyle is much less different.
thurn 5y ago
Tesla's 'move' was a PR thing -- the great majority of the engineering team is staying in CA.
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  It was also Musk searching for even more subsidies from the Texas state government.

_boffin_ 5y ago

I have an extremely close friend, who is at the C-Level, that just shocked me with news of moving to Boulder, Colorado due to the hostile California laws. I haven't gone in detail with him about what laws/ordinances are specifically having him move there, but yeah...

enduroman 5y ago
Company I'm at moved headquarters from CA to TX. A bunch of execs left CA too with the relocation. Only people staying are the ones who love SF.
rhexs 5y ago
Boulder is California-light. Colorado doesn’t yet have the endemic corruption you get with uniparty states like California, but with all the Californians moving there and doing the same thing, it’s coming. The rise in homelessness in Boulder in just the past few years is amazing.
- chiefofgxbxl 5y ago
  I lived in Highlands Ranch, CO for roughly half a year, and man the suburban sprawl in anything outside of Boulder is on steroids. My impression of Colorado is that it's a "hot" place to be right now (very much hyped as the place to escape to), but that will in time be expended as housing costs skyrocket and no new housing can be built because everything is interconnected by a 6-8 lane highway. Reference: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Highlands+Ranch,+CO/@39.5527613,-105.0076964,1257m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x876c82f082d15d0b:0x11f163cd6b8cdb49!8m2!3d39.5480789!4d-104.9739333 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Highlands+Ranch,+CO/@39.55...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

88913527 5y ago

I don't necessarily share the sentiment, but I am curious to hear the case for the consequences. California is basically its own economy: the state can make its own rules, so from my perspective, the state has more power to set the rules. Other states, at best, can market themselves as "not California"-- something to run from, but not necessarily something to run to.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Indeed, California is the fifth largest economy in the world, ahead of the UK and India (based on GDP).
- newaccount2021 5y ago
BlueTankEngine 5y ago
I think there most certainly is something to run to. Lower taxes, less regulations to comply with, state-level offices willing to get on the phone and make things happen to bring innovative businesses to the state, lower cost of living, better weather. Whether or not you think all these things are good things for a state to have, or whether you think Texas represents your values, it most definitely offers something to run to, even in a world without California.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> I've been hearing lots of business owners complaining about California's labor laws getting increasingly hostile which leads companies to relocate or move as many resources they can outside of CA I’m almost 50, and I’ve been hearing and reading lots of this my whole life. But somehow California’s economy keeps doing well, even without being one of the places that are winning the battle to attract the firms that are optimizing for maximally emoployee-hostile labor laws.

enriquec 5y ago
economy doing well? are you telling me that cities that are completely unaffordable and overrun with crime, homelessness, and drug abuse - along with mass exodus - are signs of a healthy economy? I live here. I'm fighting the good fight - and it isn't working. It's getting worse every day.
- voxl 5y ago
  Why are they signs of an unhealthy economy? Gentrification and bad zoning laws alone could explain many of your examples.
  - enriquec 5y ago
    Weird comment. Could you define gentrification? For decades, "Gentrification" has the go-to for the people that applaud tesla leaving and Amazon being rejected by New York. Ironically, those same people are strong proponents of zoning and centralized planning of the whole state. Pretty fed up with their outsized control and demonization of anyone that tries to make things better.
    - throw_nbvc1234 5y ago
      Death tax vs estate tax. Immigration vs international talent acquisition. UBI vs Freedom Dividend. Gentrification vs Multi-family zoning. The (twitter centric) left would make much more progress in America if they worked on better messaging instead of just relying on moral arguments.

junofan 5y ago

We took our business elsewhere. It’s becoming crazytown back there.

me_me_mu_mu 5y ago

I feel like these trends are waves and we are currently in the down trend. I think we’ll see a bigger uptrend once the economy stabilizes again. We are in a multi prong proxy battle between energy sources and work/life shift. Once people figure out this change I’m sure things will get better as they did for other cities like nyc. Things were really awful back in the day and got better, then got worse, then got better again. Also, companies might move their headquarters to Texas or whatever but people deep down (workers and probably also the company owners) prefer the lifestyle and experiences that California offers. California coast cities are amazingly beautiful and offer diverse range of activities outdoors and venue wise, and no massive McMansion in 100 degree Texas heat where you have AC blasting and Have to drive eight lane highways everywhere will ever replace the fact you can just hop on your bicycle and ride five min to the beach. I’m just going off anecdote from friends here.

jandrewrogers 5y ago
> you can just hop on your bicycle and ride five min to the beach I can assure you that the percentage of Californians that enjoy this lifestyle is vanishingly small. I've lived in all three coastal metros in California, was an avid user of the beach and hate driving; this lifestyle is not realistically achievable for most people that live there, even the average person in tech. Most engineers aren't trading a house in Santa Monica for a house in Texas. They are trading a house in South San Jose. That lifestyle is much less different.

thurn 5y ago

Tesla's 'move' was a PR thing -- the great majority of the engineering team is staying in CA.

JaimeThompson 5y ago
It was also Musk searching for even more subsidies from the Texas state government.