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For folks suggesting that this won't prove you didn't plagiarize a melody somewhere else then "invent" it on video: Melodies are often revised. Capturing the

For folks suggesting that this won't prove you didn't plagiarize a melody somewhere else then "invent" it on video: Melodies are often revised. Capturing the evolution of a melody may show that the final version emerged from an earlier version which bears less resemblance to the source alleged to have been copied. If in fact the melody was plagiarized, then the video evidence might actually document an earlier version where the resemblance was closer. But I expect that Sheeran believes he is not plagiarizing and thus doesn't fear this possibility. More likely, there is only an accidental resemblance between melodies that had no shared origin. In such a case, presenting the creative history would help in a court case.

robonerd 5y ago
If the plagiarism was intentional, it would be trivial for the artist to simply not document the portions of the process which would reveal it. He could work out his version from the original whistling to himself in the shower, then go to the studio and start playing other random melodies that he morphs over the course of a few hours into his intended version. Of course, "proof" is beyond the point in these sort of civil trials, but even taken as merely persuasive evidence, I'm not very impressed.
- rectang 5y ago
  > If the plagiarism was intentional I doubt that any of the high-profile melodic plagiarism cases has ever arisen from some moustache-twirling evil musician deliberately ripping off a melody. That's suicidal, and not guaranteed to produce a hit anyway. They all start with someone plagiarizing subconsciously. If in fact the (unintential) plagiarism was real and the video record reinforced that, there would be incentive to withold the video evidence. But manufacturing evidence is extremely dangerous. It's like trying to spoof a journal from years ago — all it takes is one slip-up and you're doomed.
  - robonerd 5y ago
    I don't know about high-profile melodic plagiarism specifically, but a lot of general plagiarism is absolutely intentional. So I wouldn't rule out the possibility for any particular sort of plagarism.
    - rectang 5y ago
      It's possible in the abstract but that doesn't mean it's likely. In particular, it seems ludicrous that Ed Sheeran has adopted the stratagem of deliberately ripping people off and then creating false evidence to hide it.
    - noirbot 5y ago
      Sure, but a lot of general plagiarism is done because of laziness or the high reward/low risk math of whatever context it's in. If I plagiarize some code as part of my job and don't say where I got it from, it's unlikely anyone will care, or even see it, let alone know where I got it from. Almost everything a major pop artist would put out has at least a shot at becoming a worldwide hit where a vast chunk of the population will hear it. To decide that you're going to plagiarize in that case, when you easily have a massive pool of songwriters and producers who could help you come up with something more original, AND to plagiarize a past #1 hit? You'd have to be pretty dumb. I'd almost believe it was intentional more easily if they were plagiarizing some band I'd never heard of, or from another genre/country. The Coldplay/Satriani suit was a little more believable to me in that way, since it would be easier to go "eh, who even listened to that other song. No one will notice."

robonerd 5y ago

If the plagiarism was intentional, it would be trivial for the artist to simply not document the portions of the process which would reveal it. He could work out his version from the original whistling to himself in the shower, then go to the studio and start playing other random melodies that he morphs over the course of a few hours into his intended version. Of course, "proof" is beyond the point in these sort of civil trials, but even taken as merely persuasive evidence, I'm not very impressed.

rectang 5y ago
> If the plagiarism was intentional I doubt that any of the high-profile melodic plagiarism cases has ever arisen from some moustache-twirling evil musician deliberately ripping off a melody. That's suicidal, and not guaranteed to produce a hit anyway. They all start with someone plagiarizing subconsciously. If in fact the (unintential) plagiarism was real and the video record reinforced that, there would be incentive to withold the video evidence. But manufacturing evidence is extremely dangerous. It's like trying to spoof a journal from years ago — all it takes is one slip-up and you're doomed.
- robonerd 5y ago
  I don't know about high-profile melodic plagiarism specifically, but a lot of general plagiarism is absolutely intentional. So I wouldn't rule out the possibility for any particular sort of plagarism.
  - rectang 5y ago
    It's possible in the abstract but that doesn't mean it's likely. In particular, it seems ludicrous that Ed Sheeran has adopted the stratagem of deliberately ripping people off and then creating false evidence to hide it.
  - noirbot 5y ago
    Sure, but a lot of general plagiarism is done because of laziness or the high reward/low risk math of whatever context it's in. If I plagiarize some code as part of my job and don't say where I got it from, it's unlikely anyone will care, or even see it, let alone know where I got it from. Almost everything a major pop artist would put out has at least a shot at becoming a worldwide hit where a vast chunk of the population will hear it. To decide that you're going to plagiarize in that case, when you easily have a massive pool of songwriters and producers who could help you come up with something more original, AND to plagiarize a past #1 hit? You'd have to be pretty dumb. I'd almost believe it was intentional more easily if they were plagiarizing some band I'd never heard of, or from another genre/country. The Coldplay/Satriani suit was a little more believable to me in that way, since it would be easier to go "eh, who even listened to that other song. No one will notice."