7 ms·

I'd like to hear from someone in China on why the government still pursues a zero-Covid policy. Is it just face-saving at this point?

danenania 5y ago
Once a large bureaucracy gears itself up to solve a problem, it will keep trying to solve the problem even after it’s not a real problem anymore.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Yeah. I mean if it had a purpose it has been served. Why don't they use all that massive CCP infrastructure to have zero tolerance for not getting vaccinated instead? It's ludicrous.
- happyopossum 5y ago
  Their vaccine doesn’t work - forcing everyone to get it would only highlight that fact.
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    They have the spycraft and resources to steal moderna and pfizer or even J&J if they wanted it. If that fails, they probably have the money to just buy the rights to produce it. I mean didn't sputnik at least prove somewhat effective?
    - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
      China already has an indigenously developed vaccine (from CanSino) that uses the same technology as J&J and AstraZeneca. It's just as effective. > I mean didn't sputnik at least prove somewhat effective? Sputnik V was one of the most effective vaccines. It was more effective than J&J and AstraZeneca in phase-3 trials. > they probably have the money to just buy the rights to produce it A Chinese company, Fosun, invested in the development of the BioNTech vaccine early on, and has the rights to produce and distribute it in China. The vaccine hasn't been approved in mainland China, though. The efficacy of Chinese vaccines isn't a major issue. They're plenty effective, and 3 doses of Sinovac actually turned out to be just as effective as 3 doses of BioNTech in Hong Kong.[1] The issue is that old people in China have been hesitant to get vaccinated at all. So far, old people in China have been protected by the zero-CoVID policy, so this hasn't been an issue. If the virus starts spreading, however, it will become an issue. 1. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v...
  - huxflux 5y ago
  - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
    The various Chinese vaccines have actually proven to be highly effective at preventing severe disease and death. In Hong Kong, 3 doses of Sinovac turned out to be just as effective (in fact, slightly more effective, though that could be statistical noise) as 3 doses of BioNTech.[1] Yet the idea that Chinese vaccines don't work is incredibly widespread in the West. It's pure prejudice, in my opinion. 1. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v...
- throwmeariver1 5y ago
  They are 1.5 billion in china it's not that easy even if you are using a protein based vaccine...
ceejayoz 5y ago
The Chinese vaccine is substantially less effective than the mRNA-based ones, and it hasn't been mandated so the vaccination rate is still low in some areas/populations.
AndyJado 5y ago
If SH did carrys out Centre Party's policy like most of other cities does, this bizzare wouldn't happen in the first place, if weepy kid always get what it want, what about the slient most? SH's fault is not CN's fault. China has no face, we just have the biggest slient most, pardon my English if you may ;)
- SgtBastard 5y ago
  You sound like you’re jealous of Shanghai - that’s understandable, I’m sorry your hukou is from countryside.
  - AndyJado 5y ago
    appericate your kindess and you just made my day, "a man jealous of a city", how about a fish jealous of earbuds, I mean, it has to be the same species do we?
- simongray 5y ago
  > slient most silent majority?
  - AndyJado 5y ago
    the biggest silent majority..That would definitly make more sense but my shallow mind sticks to 'most', more poetic it says. You see, if you pardon my jibber jabber, 'most' is statistic but 'majority' implies some political asset..
guardiangod 5y ago
Earlier on municipal and provincial officials have lost their job over (perceived or not) incompetent handling of COVID. No one wants to be the next in line, so when the Beijing central gov tells them to do x, the provincial gov will to 2x and the municipal gov will do 8x just to make sure. And they will tell higher up "everything is going to according to plan."
paganel 5y ago
The (relatively) high number of deaths during the recent Hong Kong omicron wave must also have scared them. There are lots of non-vaccinated elderly people in China (if I'm not mistaken only about 60% of the over-80s are vaccinated), and as such even (the relatively lighter) Omicron variant would cause lots and lots of deaths around China among that elderly population (and China has lots of elders). All things considered not the best situation to be in, because getting rid of the zero-covid strategy right now will cause lots and lots of deaths. Maybe China should have done as the rest of the world has done when it came to Covid and it should have tried to adjust gradually, as the pandemic progressed.
jerryzh 5y ago
One slightly reasonable opinion is that Chinese population density is way higher than anywhere else in the world and it may go out of controll if not 0 policy

danenania 5y ago

Once a large bureaucracy gears itself up to solve a problem, it will keep trying to solve the problem even after it’s not a real problem anymore.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

Yeah. I mean if it had a purpose it has been served. Why don't they use all that massive CCP infrastructure to have zero tolerance for not getting vaccinated instead? It's ludicrous.

happyopossum 5y ago
Their vaccine doesn’t work - forcing everyone to get it would only highlight that fact.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  They have the spycraft and resources to steal moderna and pfizer or even J&J if they wanted it. If that fails, they probably have the money to just buy the rights to produce it. I mean didn't sputnik at least prove somewhat effective?
  - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
    China already has an indigenously developed vaccine (from CanSino) that uses the same technology as J&J and AstraZeneca. It's just as effective. > I mean didn't sputnik at least prove somewhat effective? Sputnik V was one of the most effective vaccines. It was more effective than J&J and AstraZeneca in phase-3 trials. > they probably have the money to just buy the rights to produce it A Chinese company, Fosun, invested in the development of the BioNTech vaccine early on, and has the rights to produce and distribute it in China. The vaccine hasn't been approved in mainland China, though. The efficacy of Chinese vaccines isn't a major issue. They're plenty effective, and 3 doses of Sinovac actually turned out to be just as effective as 3 doses of BioNTech in Hong Kong.[1] The issue is that old people in China have been hesitant to get vaccinated at all. So far, old people in China have been protected by the zero-CoVID policy, so this hasn't been an issue. If the virus starts spreading, however, it will become an issue. 1. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v...
- huxflux 5y ago
- DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
  The various Chinese vaccines have actually proven to be highly effective at preventing severe disease and death. In Hong Kong, 3 doses of Sinovac turned out to be just as effective (in fact, slightly more effective, though that could be statistical noise) as 3 doses of BioNTech.[1] Yet the idea that Chinese vaccines don't work is incredibly widespread in the West. It's pure prejudice, in my opinion. 1. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.22.22272769v...
throwmeariver1 5y ago
They are 1.5 billion in china it's not that easy even if you are using a protein based vaccine...

ceejayoz 5y ago

The Chinese vaccine is substantially less effective than the mRNA-based ones, and it hasn't been mandated so the vaccination rate is still low in some areas/populations.

AndyJado 5y ago

If SH did carrys out Centre Party's policy like most of other cities does, this bizzare wouldn't happen in the first place, if weepy kid always get what it want, what about the slient most? SH's fault is not CN's fault. China has no face, we just have the biggest slient most, pardon my English if you may ;)

SgtBastard 5y ago
You sound like you’re jealous of Shanghai - that’s understandable, I’m sorry your hukou is from countryside.
- AndyJado 5y ago
  appericate your kindess and you just made my day, "a man jealous of a city", how about a fish jealous of earbuds, I mean, it has to be the same species do we?
simongray 5y ago
> slient most silent majority?
- AndyJado 5y ago
  the biggest silent majority..That would definitly make more sense but my shallow mind sticks to 'most', more poetic it says. You see, if you pardon my jibber jabber, 'most' is statistic but 'majority' implies some political asset..

guardiangod 5y ago

Earlier on municipal and provincial officials have lost their job over (perceived or not) incompetent handling of COVID. No one wants to be the next in line, so when the Beijing central gov tells them to do x, the provincial gov will to 2x and the municipal gov will do 8x just to make sure. And they will tell higher up "everything is going to according to plan."

paganel 5y ago

The (relatively) high number of deaths during the recent Hong Kong omicron wave must also have scared them. There are lots of non-vaccinated elderly people in China (if I'm not mistaken only about 60% of the over-80s are vaccinated), and as such even (the relatively lighter) Omicron variant would cause lots and lots of deaths around China among that elderly population (and China has lots of elders). All things considered not the best situation to be in, because getting rid of the zero-covid strategy right now will cause lots and lots of deaths. Maybe China should have done as the rest of the world has done when it came to Covid and it should have tried to adjust gradually, as the pandemic progressed.

jerryzh 5y ago

One slightly reasonable opinion is that Chinese population density is way higher than anywhere else in the world and it may go out of controll if not 0 policy