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> My semi-cynical view would be that cosmetics companies don’t have any specific incentive to accelerate the natural march of research as long as they stay on t

> My semi-cynical view would be that cosmetics companies don’t have any specific incentive to accelerate the natural march of research as long as they stay on the forefront of it and have top of the line products I looked at the Linkedin information for a few cosmetic companies and found that most of the employees work in marketing and channels, followed by business administration, and followed by a handful of cosmetician. My guess is that either research and development are outsourced or they are primarily marketing companies, which means there might not be any research to begin with.

ncmncm 5y ago
They have found that it absolutely doesn't matter how well, or if, the products work. It suffices to suggest they might. If somebody came up with a product that actually did work, they know they would be in deep trouble.
- ggm 5y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble_with_Lichen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble_with_Lichen by John Wyndham,1960
hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
I wouldn't go that far as say there is absolutely no research at all; however, I saw several articles debunking the claims by manufacturers regarding the efficiency of these products. Basically, there are the equivalent of vitamin supplements: by now everybody should know there is no benefit in taking them if you have no specific deficiency but the market is still huge and people seem to buy them indiscriminately. The reason for this is simply sad. Imagine you are a woman in your forties, fifties and so on. For your whole life the society was communicating to you in different ways, directly and indirectly, that a large share of your value lies in your beauty. Now it is fading away and there is no going back. So you do what you can to slow this process down. If you believe it works, you simply feel better. And when you tell it to your friends, of course they will support you ("This cream really works miracles, you look so much younger"). Same with cosmetic surgeries, for some people it verges on the bring of psychiatric disorder, with one operation after another turning you into a monster, but when you look into the mirror you perceive yourself as more beautiful than before.
- tsol 5y ago
  >For your whole life the society was communicating to you in different ways, directly and indirectly, that a large share of your value lies in your beauty Is this really still true? I know of many female professionals who are respected for their skills alone
  - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
    This is great and as it should be, but I don't believe it applies to the society at large.
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    If you think any societal bias you have heard about has disappeared, you will generally be disappointed. The societal biases that disappeared are almost excluse those that are so long gone that we have little chance to even know they existed.
  - detuur 5y ago
    From what I can see from the outside as a man, even successful female professionals are expected to _look_ like a successful female professional, which is thin, elegant, classy, with a good amount of make-up. A huge part of the perception of how successful female professionals are comes from their looks. I notice that this beauty standard is mostly kept alive by women themselves. Men care a lot less about the appearances of professionals, especially if they're women. It also depends on the industry. Women in engineering seem only really to be judged by other women outside of engineering. Maybe this is why you haven't noticed it?
Tenoke 5y ago
Isn't LinkedIn also just much more useful for marketing people while r&d employees don't need to care for it as much (and sometimes don't even do the work under the parent company in the first place)?

ncmncm 5y ago

They have found that it absolutely doesn't matter how well, or if, the products work. It suffices to suggest they might. If somebody came up with a product that actually did work, they know they would be in deep trouble.

ggm 5y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble_with_Lichen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble_with_Lichen by John Wyndham,1960

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

I wouldn't go that far as say there is absolutely no research at all; however, I saw several articles debunking the claims by manufacturers regarding the efficiency of these products. Basically, there are the equivalent of vitamin supplements: by now everybody should know there is no benefit in taking them if you have no specific deficiency but the market is still huge and people seem to buy them indiscriminately. The reason for this is simply sad. Imagine you are a woman in your forties, fifties and so on. For your whole life the society was communicating to you in different ways, directly and indirectly, that a large share of your value lies in your beauty. Now it is fading away and there is no going back. So you do what you can to slow this process down. If you believe it works, you simply feel better. And when you tell it to your friends, of course they will support you ("This cream really works miracles, you look so much younger"). Same with cosmetic surgeries, for some people it verges on the bring of psychiatric disorder, with one operation after another turning you into a monster, but when you look into the mirror you perceive yourself as more beautiful than before.

tsol 5y ago
>For your whole life the society was communicating to you in different ways, directly and indirectly, that a large share of your value lies in your beauty Is this really still true? I know of many female professionals who are respected for their skills alone
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  This is great and as it should be, but I don't believe it applies to the society at large.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  If you think any societal bias you have heard about has disappeared, you will generally be disappointed. The societal biases that disappeared are almost excluse those that are so long gone that we have little chance to even know they existed.
- detuur 5y ago
  From what I can see from the outside as a man, even successful female professionals are expected to _look_ like a successful female professional, which is thin, elegant, classy, with a good amount of make-up. A huge part of the perception of how successful female professionals are comes from their looks. I notice that this beauty standard is mostly kept alive by women themselves. Men care a lot less about the appearances of professionals, especially if they're women. It also depends on the industry. Women in engineering seem only really to be judged by other women outside of engineering. Maybe this is why you haven't noticed it?

Tenoke 5y ago

Isn't LinkedIn also just much more useful for marketing people while r&d employees don't need to care for it as much (and sometimes don't even do the work under the parent company in the first place)?