5 ms·

A big part of the problem was that the requirement was for all teachers. Why does an English teacher need to pass a math profiency test to graduate?

analog31 4y ago
Don't know how it is in Canada, but in the US, elementary school teachers teach all subjects. Some schools can afford a "math specialist" who handles math instruction, but not all. And those are the schools that can attract top teachers in the first place.
thwayunion 4y ago
In CA, primary school teachers cover most subjects. But even secondary English teachers should be able to pass a mathematics proficiency exam. Would we want barely literate folks teaching Mathematics? No, because mathematics does not exist in isolation. Someone who can't read and write reasonably well very likely can't teach mathematics in a contextually useful way. If someone cannot pass an English/French exam, I'm not so sure that they are literate enough to teach. Similarly, a basic competency in number sense and Mathematical constructions is necessary to teach any subject, including English. If someone cannot pass a Mathematics exam, I'm not so sure that they are numerate enough to manage a grade book and interpret basic statistics about their students' progression. Not to mention teaching students how to write expository texts on technical subjects. Remember: these exams are relatively low bars. We're not testing teachers on university mathematics; we're largely testing them on material they should have learned in order to graduate from high school in the first place. See https://mathproficiencytest.ca/#/en/applicant/learn/about:whats_on https://mathproficiencytest.ca/#/en/applicant/learn/about:wh...
- mnkv 4y ago
  I'm all for basic competency in math. But looking at the specific court ruling (https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/12/2021-12-16-OTCC-v-Ontario-FINAL-signed-by-all.pdf https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/...), I don't think this standardized test is necessarily the best way to get there. The EQAO (in charge of creating the test) found through a literature review that "the fundamental goal of teacher licensure tests – to improve student learning – is often not met." Adding math courses to the B.Ed would be a much better way of improving teachers' math proficiency. It seems strange to have an extra standardized test when you have a specific program designed to graduate teachers.
  - thwayunion 4y ago
    Agreed. I think it's possible that this specific requirement was unhelpful and also that mathematics requirements are necessary. In fact, the author's complaints about status quo of mathematics education nearly entail exactly that conclusion.
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    > The EQAO (in charge of creating the test) found through a literature review that "the fundamental goal of teacher licensure tests – to improve student learning – is often not met." This is inaccurate. It’s never met. There are no known examples of teacher education improving their effectiveness. Education degrees have no effect on how god teachers are at their job. > It's easier to pick a good teacher than to train one: Familiar and new results on the correlates of teacher effectiveness > Neither holding a college major in education nor acquiring a master's degree is correlated with elementary and middle school teaching effectiveness, regardless of the university at which the degree was earned. Teachers generally do become more effective with a few years of teaching experience, but we also find evidence that teachers may become less effective with experience, particularly later in their careers. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0272775710001755 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02727...
cf141q5325 4y ago
>All certified teachers in Ontario may be assigned to teach math up to Grade 6 for grade 7 and over you need a qualification in math, however, you can still be assigned, so >Therefore, even a teacher without a qualification in intermediate or Senior Division Mathematics can be asked to teach math in those divisions. and >The Respondent’s evidence is that due to the competitive nature of teaching positions, newly certified teachers may find that the only positions available to them are positions that require them to teach math, whether or not this was their intention. When few teaching positions are available, new teachers will often take positions outside of the subjects or divisions on their teaching certificate. From page 3 (points 13 & 14) of https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/12/2021-12-16-OTCC-v-Ontario-FINAL-signed-by-all.pdf https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/...
HarryHirsch 4y ago
Because someone who can't even do 6th grade math has no business to be in front of a class. A sample test is here: https://mathproficiencytest.ca https://mathproficiencytest.ca Where does race even come in in the context of 6th grade arithmetics?

analog31 4y ago

Don't know how it is in Canada, but in the US, elementary school teachers teach all subjects. Some schools can afford a "math specialist" who handles math instruction, but not all. And those are the schools that can attract top teachers in the first place.

thwayunion 4y ago

In CA, primary school teachers cover most subjects. But even secondary English teachers should be able to pass a mathematics proficiency exam. Would we want barely literate folks teaching Mathematics? No, because mathematics does not exist in isolation. Someone who can't read and write reasonably well very likely can't teach mathematics in a contextually useful way. If someone cannot pass an English/French exam, I'm not so sure that they are literate enough to teach. Similarly, a basic competency in number sense and Mathematical constructions is necessary to teach any subject, including English. If someone cannot pass a Mathematics exam, I'm not so sure that they are numerate enough to manage a grade book and interpret basic statistics about their students' progression. Not to mention teaching students how to write expository texts on technical subjects. Remember: these exams are relatively low bars. We're not testing teachers on university mathematics; we're largely testing them on material they should have learned in order to graduate from high school in the first place. See https://mathproficiencytest.ca/#/en/applicant/learn/about:whats_on https://mathproficiencytest.ca/#/en/applicant/learn/about:wh...

mnkv 4y ago
I'm all for basic competency in math. But looking at the specific court ruling (https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/12/2021-12-16-OTCC-v-Ontario-FINAL-signed-by-all.pdf https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/...), I don't think this standardized test is necessarily the best way to get there. The EQAO (in charge of creating the test) found through a literature review that "the fundamental goal of teacher licensure tests – to improve student learning – is often not met." Adding math courses to the B.Ed would be a much better way of improving teachers' math proficiency. It seems strange to have an extra standardized test when you have a specific program designed to graduate teachers.
- thwayunion 4y ago
  Agreed. I think it's possible that this specific requirement was unhelpful and also that mathematics requirements are necessary. In fact, the author's complaints about status quo of mathematics education nearly entail exactly that conclusion.
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  > The EQAO (in charge of creating the test) found through a literature review that "the fundamental goal of teacher licensure tests – to improve student learning – is often not met." This is inaccurate. It’s never met. There are no known examples of teacher education improving their effectiveness. Education degrees have no effect on how god teachers are at their job. > It's easier to pick a good teacher than to train one: Familiar and new results on the correlates of teacher effectiveness > Neither holding a college major in education nor acquiring a master's degree is correlated with elementary and middle school teaching effectiveness, regardless of the university at which the degree was earned. Teachers generally do become more effective with a few years of teaching experience, but we also find evidence that teachers may become less effective with experience, particularly later in their careers. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0272775710001755 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02727...

cf141q5325 4y ago

>All certified teachers in Ontario may be assigned to teach math up to Grade 6 for grade 7 and over you need a qualification in math, however, you can still be assigned, so >Therefore, even a teacher without a qualification in intermediate or Senior Division Mathematics can be asked to teach math in those divisions. and >The Respondent’s evidence is that due to the competitive nature of teaching positions, newly certified teachers may find that the only positions available to them are positions that require them to teach math, whether or not this was their intention. When few teaching positions are available, new teachers will often take positions outside of the subjects or divisions on their teaching certificate. From page 3 (points 13 & 14) of https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/12/2021-12-16-OTCC-v-Ontario-FINAL-signed-by-all.pdf https://www.otffeo.on.ca/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/...

HarryHirsch 4y ago

Because someone who can't even do 6th grade math has no business to be in front of a class. A sample test is here: https://mathproficiencytest.ca https://mathproficiencytest.ca Where does race even come in in the context of 6th grade arithmetics?