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My daughter is off to study civil engineering this summer and has a particular interest in traffic engineering. This isn’t an ivory tower concern, it’s a real e

by simonh 5y ago

My daughter is off to study civil engineering this summer and has a particular interest in traffic engineering. This isn’t an ivory tower concern, it’s a real engineering discipline because roads need to be built and planned in the real world. In that world, the real one, you need to be able to talk about the reasons why you are or are not building a road here or there and the effect that will have so that real people can drive on them.

nickff 5y ago
My impression of the parent comment is that they were saying that the specific term "induced demand" seems to be used to dismiss the needs and concerns of people in an out-group. The economics term "elasticity of demand" is probably older, has a very similar meaning, broader application, and a clearer definition.
throwaway22032 5y ago
As nickff posts below, there are other, less provocative ways to refer to the fact that demand can outstrip supply. I'd argue that most of the time in the case of road networks the demand isn't even induced; it's not even elastic! It's already there, there's just no supply for it. At least in the short term - you might have an actual increase in demand over decades as a city/region grows.
- afiori 5y ago
  > the demand [..] It's already there, there's just no supply for it. This is the case if those people do not take alternative form of travel, a single subway can take hundreds of cars off the street, even in car-centric suburban hellscape (I am showing my bias here) there are secondary longer routes. In terms of congestion demand is very path-specific.
afiori 5y ago
Hi, there is minority movement in traffic engineering that pushes toward making traffic better by shuffling priorities around. A nice channel that focus on what other priorities could look like is https://www.youtube.com/NotJustBikes https://www.youtube.com/NotJustBikes A recent viral videos it recently made focuses why approaches that are complementary to suburban sprawl and high speed roads are necessary in North America (where I am assuming you are from). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI Another resource that might resonate with people theorizes why fatal car crashes went up since in the last couple years. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/1/10/driving-went-down-fatalities-went-up-heres-why https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/1/10/driving-went-d... I live in a different continent, but I am quite passionate about the topic and I believe that most people are good actors that want a better world around them. Egoistically I hope these material might change someone opinion on what that better world looks like.
- simonh 5y ago
  UK actually but thanks for the links, cheers!

by simonh 5y ago

nickff 5y ago

My impression of the parent comment is that they were saying that the specific term "induced demand" seems to be used to dismiss the needs and concerns of people in an out-group. The economics term "elasticity of demand" is probably older, has a very similar meaning, broader application, and a clearer definition.

throwaway22032 5y ago

As nickff posts below, there are other, less provocative ways to refer to the fact that demand can outstrip supply. I'd argue that most of the time in the case of road networks the demand isn't even induced; it's not even elastic! It's already there, there's just no supply for it. At least in the short term - you might have an actual increase in demand over decades as a city/region grows.

afiori 5y ago
> the demand [..] It's already there, there's just no supply for it. This is the case if those people do not take alternative form of travel, a single subway can take hundreds of cars off the street, even in car-centric suburban hellscape (I am showing my bias here) there are secondary longer routes. In terms of congestion demand is very path-specific.

afiori 5y ago

Hi, there is minority movement in traffic engineering that pushes toward making traffic better by shuffling priorities around. A nice channel that focus on what other priorities could look like is https://www.youtube.com/NotJustBikes https://www.youtube.com/NotJustBikes A recent viral videos it recently made focuses why approaches that are complementary to suburban sprawl and high speed roads are necessary in North America (where I am assuming you are from). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI Another resource that might resonate with people theorizes why fatal car crashes went up since in the last couple years. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/1/10/driving-went-down-fatalities-went-up-heres-why https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/1/10/driving-went-d... I live in a different continent, but I am quite passionate about the topic and I believe that most people are good actors that want a better world around them. Egoistically I hope these material might change someone opinion on what that better world looks like.

simonh 5y ago
UK actually but thanks for the links, cheers!