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This is assuming that there is a trial at all. The Obama administration has already made clear that it has the power to execute US citizens without trial.

by splat 15y ago

andylei 15y ago
so let's say it's world war ii and i'm a us citizen. i get on a boat to germany and join the german army. do you think a us soldier is not allowed to shoot me because the constitution allows me a trial before "execution"?
- gyardley 15y ago
  No, it's not considered murder to kill a wartime enemy in compliance with the laws of war. The parent is probably referring to the drone strike in Yemen that successfully killed Anwar al-Awlaki, a US citizen. Here the issue isn't his death, but the process leading to it. The circumstances surrounding al-Awlaki's death might be legally justifiable - apparently there's a 50-page DoJ memorandum arguing that it was. I'm certain the 'wartime enemy' argument was used. However, the public will never know if the death of al-Awlaki was justifiable, because that memorandum is secret. The executive order that led to al-Awlaki's death is secret - the Obama administration is refusing to discuss any US involvement. The evidence that informed the executive order leading to al-Awlaki's death is secret. I'm not a naïf. I'm prepared to concede that under certain quite rare and specific circumstances, it might be justifiable for the US government to kill a US citizen without full due process - I'd choose that, say, over a nuke going off in Manhattan. But there must be some judicial oversight. At the moment, we have no idea how many US citizens the president has ordered killed - and because the details behind these are 'state secrets', normal checks and balances against the abuse of power do not apply. I've got no sympathy for al-Awlaki, but this is as good a definition of tyranny as any.
- CamperBob 15y ago
  No, let's not say it's World War II, because it isn't.
- donohoe 15y ago
  In addition, it seems certain US states think its okay to execute it citizens even when it looks like they are probably innocent...

This is assuming that there is a trial at all. The Obama administration has already made clear that it has the power to execute US citizens without trial.

by splat 15y ago

This is assuming that there is a trial at all. The Obama administration has already made clear that it has the power to execute US citizens without trial.

andylei 15y ago

so let's say it's world war ii and i'm a us citizen. i get on a boat to germany and join the german army. do you think a us soldier is not allowed to shoot me because the constitution allows me a trial before "execution"?

gyardley 15y ago
No, it's not considered murder to kill a wartime enemy in compliance with the laws of war. The parent is probably referring to the drone strike in Yemen that successfully killed Anwar al-Awlaki, a US citizen. Here the issue isn't his death, but the process leading to it. The circumstances surrounding al-Awlaki's death might be legally justifiable - apparently there's a 50-page DoJ memorandum arguing that it was. I'm certain the 'wartime enemy' argument was used. However, the public will never know if the death of al-Awlaki was justifiable, because that memorandum is secret. The executive order that led to al-Awlaki's death is secret - the Obama administration is refusing to discuss any US involvement. The evidence that informed the executive order leading to al-Awlaki's death is secret. I'm not a naïf. I'm prepared to concede that under certain quite rare and specific circumstances, it might be justifiable for the US government to kill a US citizen without full due process - I'd choose that, say, over a nuke going off in Manhattan. But there must be some judicial oversight. At the moment, we have no idea how many US citizens the president has ordered killed - and because the details behind these are 'state secrets', normal checks and balances against the abuse of power do not apply. I've got no sympathy for al-Awlaki, but this is as good a definition of tyranny as any.
CamperBob 15y ago
No, let's not say it's World War II, because it isn't.
donohoe 15y ago
In addition, it seems certain US states think its okay to execute it citizens even when it looks like they are probably innocent...