5 ms·

Tower radio recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzCNKhFOPqU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzCNKhFOPqU

• nolok 5y ago
  Damn, the guy doesn't say the plane doesn't respond to commands but "l'avion fait n'importe quoi" which implies more like the responses to commands are not the one expected.
  • saalaa 5y ago
    The pilot said "[...] un problème de commandes de vol, l'avion a fait à peu près n'importe quoi [...]" and it translates as "[...] flight controls issue, the plane did just about whatever [...]". To add a bit more, it's interesting to note that at several points in the recording the pilots can be heard fighting the controls and apparently requiring force for that (https://youtu.be/VzCNKhFOPqU?t=25 https://youtu.be/VzCNKhFOPqU?t=25 for example). I know the two ariplanes are unrelated but this was also the case for 737 Max IIRC.
    • rootusrootus 5y ago
      > apparently requiring force for that Yeah, when autopilot is engaged it requires a good bit of force to override it without just turning it off first.
      • t0mas88 5y ago
        It disengages when you fight it. With the associated and very recognizable autopilot disengage sound. I'm sure there is more to this story than "crew mistake" as some seem to imply here.
        • rootusrootus 5y ago
          To be fair, the "some seem to imply" is directly sourced from the analysis of a 777 pilot. Do you have a source for the "it disengages when you fight it" assertion? You're kinda calling the 777 pilot a liar ;-)
      • saalaa 5y ago
        I'm absolutely not knowledgeable on this topic so double check everything I say. I think the issue on the 737 Max was that there's been a known and studied system (called the MCAS IIRC) on Boeing planes that overrides pilot controls under some specific pre-determined circumstances and that system had been buffed to compensate for design flaws that were discovered too late to be corrected. On top of being faulty, that buffed system was also way outside of its initial intent and purpose (or rather the parameters guiding its operation were changed so much that it should have been addressed as a separate system and mandated specific training while they were trying to portray the plane as a simple evolution requiring no pilot re-training from earlier versions of the 737). So, to me, it looks like yet another issue with a system overriding pilot controls for whatever reason. More generally, this falls into that weird pattern of relying on external sensors which starts a chain of bad decisions leading to accidents (this was also a sensor issue with the Air France 447, although the chain was largely human this time, the pilots realizing way too late their repeated mistake).
        • sokoloff 5y ago
          This is a B777-300, which does not have MCAS. The 737-Max had MCAS added because of the larger engines on that model than prior 737s. This is not an issue "on [all] Boeing planes" (which, to be fair you didn't directly say, but what you did say was pretty ambiguous and could easily [perhaps even most naturally] be read to have meant that).
          • saalaa 5y ago
            Sorry, this happens a lot to me. For the record I'm not trying to discredit Boeing. I do have issues organizing and expressing my thoughts which results in less than ideal communication.
• bitcharmer 5y ago
  Thank you for sharing. Listening to the distress in the pilot's tone made me uneasy. This is probably a good indication that the situation was very serious. What's going on with those Boeing airplanes?
  • rootusrootus 5y ago
    > What's going on with those Boeing airplanes? I don't think it's only Boeing airplanes where the autopilot will resist your attempts to override it with manual control inputs. If anything, I kinda expect that Airbus planes are even more opinionated about that type of behavior.
• herpderperator 5y ago
  Why aren't they speaking English? I thought the communications were always supposed to be in English.
  • rhcom2 5y ago
    I too thought that but apparently it is not the case. https://internationalaviationhq.com/2019/11/23/language-used-by-air-traffic-control/ https://internationalaviationhq.com/2019/11/23/language-used... > The language used by Air Traffic Control is quite simple: whichever the pilot chooses to use. Normally this is between English and whatever the language is of the place that they are flying to/from. Although English is the only official language.
    • jeffrallen 5y ago
      Interesting. I listen to lots of ATC, and I'm fluent in French. It was really noticable how much less legible French is on the radio, stuff like AF zero un and AF zero onze differ by so little you cannot distinguish them. Radio English has specific alternative prononciations, which help avoid this, like "fife" and "niner".
      • jean_tta 5y ago
        French military radio procedures also have specific pronunciations to disambiguate words. The fact that it is not used (assuming it is not) in ATC radio is not a feature of the French language.
      • giraffe_lady 5y ago
        Are you a native french speaker? I'm fluent in a couple languages and all but my native one are insanely hard to understand over radio. Even with the special pronunciations there are a lot of nearly indistinguishable sounds in english, and I'm not sure those sounds are even apparent to a non-native speaker who isn't specifically trained in them. It's very possible they are using an equivalent but we can't hear it without some practice.