4 ms·

This makes me wonder. I get car-sick when I'm a passenger in a car. Sometimes it takes an hour. Sometimes 10 minutes. However, if I'm riding in a convertible

This makes me wonder. I get car-sick when I'm a passenger in a car. Sometimes it takes an hour. Sometimes 10 minutes. However, if I'm riding in a convertible with the top down... I haven't gotten car-sick yet. Is the wind "fixing" the problem with my brain?

tintor 5y ago
Motion sickness is body's way to protect itself against eating hallucinogens by mistake. Large mismatch between what your inner ear is feeling about your motion, and what your eyes perceive as your motion, imply possible hallucinogens, so your body is trying to make you throw them up. Humans haven't evolved riding in vehicles. Interior of car is not moving much relative to you, but your inner ear feels movement.
- dylan604 5y ago
  This seems very odd as by the time you start feeling the effects of an hallucinogen, your body has already absorbed them past the point of expelling them being effective.
  - bee_rider 5y ago
    Is that always the case? I suspect the hallucinogens that people have selected to intentionally trip on are a bit unusual (intentional dose sizes, presumably they are selected to get the person tripping in some particular timeframe, right? I'm obviously showing some ignorance on this topic).
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      This would have evolved in our rodent ancestors. They would have nibbled a bit of anything they came across that seemed like it might possibly be food. Oddly, I gather rats cannot barf, which is why coumarin works as rat killer.
      - nkurz 5y ago
        > Oddly, I gather rats cannot barf, which is why coumarin works as rat killer. I think your recollection is off by a little. Coumarin is an anticoagulant and damages rats' livers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coumarin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coumarin You might be thinking of corn gluten meal, which kills rats by preventing them from absorbing water? It's sold as RatX: https://www.ecoclearproducts.com/pages/ratx-faqs https://www.ecoclearproducts.com/pages/ratx-faqs
  - xenadu02 5y ago
    Apparently dosing was enough of a difference at some point that this mechanism evolved (assuming the stated reason is accurate). Perhaps our distant ancestors also tended to eat a small bite first, then proceed with other foods, before consuming the remainder? For that matter the drug wouldn't be absorbed all at once. If it is toxic better to eject whatever hasn't been digested than continue absorbing it. There's a bonus psychological side-effect: vomiting is not pleasant and the individual (if they survive) will be more likely to remember what they ate and how sick it made them to avoid it in the future.
    - autoexec 5y ago
      > There's a bonus psychological side-effect: vomiting is not pleasant I never want to do it, but it nearly always makes me feel much better. You can even get a sort of sense of calm or euphoria from vomiting. I can't say that it's pleasant, but if it were less gross and smelly it wouldn't be so bad... although the muscle contractions would still be hell on my under-trained abs.
      - xen0 5y ago
        I believe that's just endorphins. I'm familiar with the sensation; it's enough to make you feel better, possibly even sober (if it was a drinking related episode), but the effect is unfortunately very temporary.
- pugworthy 5y ago
  You've defined it via the general mismatch in a good way. Sea sickness is your eyes saying, "I'm not moving", but your inner ear saying, "Oh yes we are". VR sickness is your eyes saying, "We are moving" and your inner ear saying, "No we're not"
  - skykooler 5y ago
    I wonder whether having something to blow air on you in particular directions as you move in VR might help with that, then?
    - nvahalik 5y ago
      That would be really, really nifty.
    - magicalhippo 5y ago
      That shouldn't be too hard to try out. A few fans controlled by the motion in the game. Sounds worth a shot.
- alar44 5y ago
  This is one evolutionary explanation, but hasn't been proven, and is not widely accepted. I don't buy it, as by the time you're feeling effects from ingesting something, you're already 45 minutes to an hour in. Additionally, our taste buds and nose do a great job of warning us about things we shouldn't be eating.
throwawayboise 5y ago
For me it helps to have as much of a view of the outside as possible. Feeling the wind helps also. If I'm in the back seat looking mostly at the interior of the car, my inner ear senses motion but my eyes tell me I'm stationary. I think those conflicting inputs are the cause of most motion sickness. Much less of an issue for me when I'm in front looking out the front window.
- ordu 5y ago
  > Much less of an issue for me when I'm in front looking out the front window. And it never an issue when your are behind the wheel. In this case nothing can surprise you, because any acceleration or rotation not just predicted by your brain, but directly caused by it.
sankalp_sans 5y ago
It is hard to keep your vision limited on the interiors of a car when driving a convertible, because no roof. Looking outside gives your vision sensory alignment with the orientation fluid in your inner ear. In a non convertible, your vision senses betray what your balance sense perceives (motion instead of stillness) and the body decides it’s time to throw up whatever poisonous stuff made you
ordu 5y ago
Wind blowing into a face is something special. Watch dogs, they are crazy about it. Like cats can't resist hiding in a box, so dogs can't resist heading against the wind. :) Though, seriously speaking, I don't know really. I think wind helps against car-sickness, and maybe more than in one way: sickness can be triggered by too much of CO2 in a bloodstream. It normally doesn't but I believe effects of disorientation and increased levels of CO2 are additive. So it is possible to be slightly disoriented (but not enough for a sickness), slightly deprived of fresh air (but not enough for a sickness), but to feel sickness because of a combined effect.
loraxclient 5y ago
Tangential but maybe corroborating point: Disney World has a ride ( I think called Mission Space ? ) that spins you in an enclosed space to imitate acceleration in space flight Lots of motion sickness warnings on that ride and there are two key mitigations in each seat: 1. A “cockpit window” lcd screen showing a POV video that tracks with the acceleration 2. A powerful fan impelling air at your face Looking away from the screen, even for a moment, can cause immense nausea and iirc is advised against on the ride Neat!

tintor 5y ago

Motion sickness is body's way to protect itself against eating hallucinogens by mistake. Large mismatch between what your inner ear is feeling about your motion, and what your eyes perceive as your motion, imply possible hallucinogens, so your body is trying to make you throw them up. Humans haven't evolved riding in vehicles. Interior of car is not moving much relative to you, but your inner ear feels movement.

dylan604 5y ago
This seems very odd as by the time you start feeling the effects of an hallucinogen, your body has already absorbed them past the point of expelling them being effective.
- bee_rider 5y ago
  Is that always the case? I suspect the hallucinogens that people have selected to intentionally trip on are a bit unusual (intentional dose sizes, presumably they are selected to get the person tripping in some particular timeframe, right? I'm obviously showing some ignorance on this topic).
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    This would have evolved in our rodent ancestors. They would have nibbled a bit of anything they came across that seemed like it might possibly be food. Oddly, I gather rats cannot barf, which is why coumarin works as rat killer.
    - nkurz 5y ago
      > Oddly, I gather rats cannot barf, which is why coumarin works as rat killer. I think your recollection is off by a little. Coumarin is an anticoagulant and damages rats' livers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coumarin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coumarin You might be thinking of corn gluten meal, which kills rats by preventing them from absorbing water? It's sold as RatX: https://www.ecoclearproducts.com/pages/ratx-faqs https://www.ecoclearproducts.com/pages/ratx-faqs
- xenadu02 5y ago
  Apparently dosing was enough of a difference at some point that this mechanism evolved (assuming the stated reason is accurate). Perhaps our distant ancestors also tended to eat a small bite first, then proceed with other foods, before consuming the remainder? For that matter the drug wouldn't be absorbed all at once. If it is toxic better to eject whatever hasn't been digested than continue absorbing it. There's a bonus psychological side-effect: vomiting is not pleasant and the individual (if they survive) will be more likely to remember what they ate and how sick it made them to avoid it in the future.
  - autoexec 5y ago
    > There's a bonus psychological side-effect: vomiting is not pleasant I never want to do it, but it nearly always makes me feel much better. You can even get a sort of sense of calm or euphoria from vomiting. I can't say that it's pleasant, but if it were less gross and smelly it wouldn't be so bad... although the muscle contractions would still be hell on my under-trained abs.
    - xen0 5y ago
      I believe that's just endorphins. I'm familiar with the sensation; it's enough to make you feel better, possibly even sober (if it was a drinking related episode), but the effect is unfortunately very temporary.
pugworthy 5y ago
You've defined it via the general mismatch in a good way. Sea sickness is your eyes saying, "I'm not moving", but your inner ear saying, "Oh yes we are". VR sickness is your eyes saying, "We are moving" and your inner ear saying, "No we're not"
- skykooler 5y ago
  I wonder whether having something to blow air on you in particular directions as you move in VR might help with that, then?
  - nvahalik 5y ago
    That would be really, really nifty.
  - magicalhippo 5y ago
    That shouldn't be too hard to try out. A few fans controlled by the motion in the game. Sounds worth a shot.
alar44 5y ago
This is one evolutionary explanation, but hasn't been proven, and is not widely accepted. I don't buy it, as by the time you're feeling effects from ingesting something, you're already 45 minutes to an hour in. Additionally, our taste buds and nose do a great job of warning us about things we shouldn't be eating.

throwawayboise 5y ago

For me it helps to have as much of a view of the outside as possible. Feeling the wind helps also. If I'm in the back seat looking mostly at the interior of the car, my inner ear senses motion but my eyes tell me I'm stationary. I think those conflicting inputs are the cause of most motion sickness. Much less of an issue for me when I'm in front looking out the front window.

ordu 5y ago
> Much less of an issue for me when I'm in front looking out the front window. And it never an issue when your are behind the wheel. In this case nothing can surprise you, because any acceleration or rotation not just predicted by your brain, but directly caused by it.

sankalp_sans 5y ago

It is hard to keep your vision limited on the interiors of a car when driving a convertible, because no roof. Looking outside gives your vision sensory alignment with the orientation fluid in your inner ear. In a non convertible, your vision senses betray what your balance sense perceives (motion instead of stillness) and the body decides it’s time to throw up whatever poisonous stuff made you

ordu 5y ago

Wind blowing into a face is something special. Watch dogs, they are crazy about it. Like cats can't resist hiding in a box, so dogs can't resist heading against the wind. :) Though, seriously speaking, I don't know really. I think wind helps against car-sickness, and maybe more than in one way: sickness can be triggered by too much of CO2 in a bloodstream. It normally doesn't but I believe effects of disorientation and increased levels of CO2 are additive. So it is possible to be slightly disoriented (but not enough for a sickness), slightly deprived of fresh air (but not enough for a sickness), but to feel sickness because of a combined effect.

loraxclient 5y ago

Tangential but maybe corroborating point: Disney World has a ride ( I think called Mission Space ? ) that spins you in an enclosed space to imitate acceleration in space flight Lots of motion sickness warnings on that ride and there are two key mitigations in each seat: 1. A “cockpit window” lcd screen showing a POV video that tracks with the acceleration 2. A powerful fan impelling air at your face Looking away from the screen, even for a moment, can cause immense nausea and iirc is advised against on the ride Neat!