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> Yep. People that can't get to their DMV will surely have time to go to county registrar's office. Given how sparsely populated country was in 19th century, a

by xyzzyz 5y ago

> Yep. People that can't get to their DMV will surely have time to go to county registrar's office. Given how sparsely populated country was in 19th century, and how cumbersome travel was back then, do you think that democracy in the US in 19th century was impossible?

tptacek 5y ago
First, yes, it was impossible: most people in the country were legally ineligible to vote. That aside, though: voting in the 19th century looked nothing like it does today. Most of what we think of as modern Democratic voting (the secret ballot, registration, etc) are Progressive Era reforms.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  None of your comment addresses my actual question. Your first is a failed attempt at a gotcha, which I expected and specifically preempted by asking whether it was possible, not whether US actually had a democracy. Second is a piece of historical trivia, which is irrelevant to my question. So, how is it? Is democracy only possible in heavily urbanized countries, so that the citizens never are in more than walking distance from a polling place? Or, hopefully, it is a more general political systems that can apply to more varied range of human societies?
  - pvg 5y ago
    None of your comment addresses my actual question. Your first is a failed attempt at a gotcha That's a curious characterization given your original question is a gotcha question, someone just replied to it as if it wasn't.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    I'm sorry. I didn't make this clear enough. I thought "voter registration was an innovation of the Progressive Era" spelled this out, and that it was sort of also implied by the fact that for much of the 19th century, we didn't even have widespread photography, and certainly not photographic ID, but, to be clear: my point was that in the 19th century nobody had to go to the DMV to vote, because voter identification wasn't a thing. Before I responded to your original comment, I did some poking around about 19th century voting practices. It's an interesting question. If you want to keep talking about it, can I ask first if you've taken the time to do the same thing? This is one of those discussions where we don't have to derive everything axiomatically.

by xyzzyz 5y ago

tptacek 5y ago

First, yes, it was impossible: most people in the country were legally ineligible to vote. That aside, though: voting in the 19th century looked nothing like it does today. Most of what we think of as modern Democratic voting (the secret ballot, registration, etc) are Progressive Era reforms.

xyzzyz 5y ago
None of your comment addresses my actual question. Your first is a failed attempt at a gotcha, which I expected and specifically preempted by asking whether it was possible, not whether US actually had a democracy. Second is a piece of historical trivia, which is irrelevant to my question. So, how is it? Is democracy only possible in heavily urbanized countries, so that the citizens never are in more than walking distance from a polling place? Or, hopefully, it is a more general political systems that can apply to more varied range of human societies?
- pvg 5y ago
  None of your comment addresses my actual question. Your first is a failed attempt at a gotcha That's a curious characterization given your original question is a gotcha question, someone just replied to it as if it wasn't.
- tptacek 5y ago
  I'm sorry. I didn't make this clear enough. I thought "voter registration was an innovation of the Progressive Era" spelled this out, and that it was sort of also implied by the fact that for much of the 19th century, we didn't even have widespread photography, and certainly not photographic ID, but, to be clear: my point was that in the 19th century nobody had to go to the DMV to vote, because voter identification wasn't a thing. Before I responded to your original comment, I did some poking around about 19th century voting practices. It's an interesting question. If you want to keep talking about it, can I ask first if you've taken the time to do the same thing? This is one of those discussions where we don't have to derive everything axiomatically.