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An interesting look at an absolutely insane idea! The Foxbat was an interesting design because as the article mentioned, flying at Mach 3+ required essentially

An interesting look at an absolutely insane idea! The Foxbat was an interesting design because as the article mentioned, flying at Mach 3+ required essentially destroying the engines. The Foxbat was supposed to be able to catch the Blackbird, which is why it had giant engines and had skin with a high nickel content for enduring bursts to high Mach numbers. Even so, the Blackbird could crank it up to about Mach 3.4- the Foxbat didn't have a chance to catch it. One could wonder- did the MIG design bureau know this, and suggest the biz jet version as a way to save the project? Either way, it was a success for the Soviet Union if nothing else as a propaganda machine.

TremendousJudge 5y ago
Actually, the MiG-25 was designed to catch the XB-70 Valkyrie, which is why top speed and cost were the priority requirements. Speed because it needed to catch it, and cost because there had to be a lot of them built if they wanted to protect the entire territory from supersonic nuclear bombers. And it should've been able to catch the supposed mach 3.1 speed of the XB-70. The Valkyrie was cancelled of course, but the Soviet Union kept using (and selling) the jet.
- quercusa 5y ago
  The remaining XB-70 would be reason enough to visit the US AF Museum (Dayton, Ohio) - it's a stunning plane. That said, the museum is easily worth two days.
- geocrasher 5y ago
  Oh, my memory did not serve me well in this case. Thanks for the correction! The XB-70 is an amazing aircraft.
- HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
  Didn't the XB-70 become the B-1?
  - icegreentea2 5y ago
    Kinda not really? The XB-70 cancellation left a hole (next generation strategic bomber) that was eventually filled by the B-1. But the initial B-1(A) was envisioned to be somewhat lower speed, but still fast (Mach 2), and specifically a low altitude penetrator (XB-70 was a high speed, high altitude plane). It then got reworked into the B-1B which is uh... weird role. It's even slower than the B-1A, somewhat more stealthy, and really supposed to be used as a cruise missile truck. Arguable how much value the B-1B really provided.
    - rjsw 5y ago
      The B-1B seems to be a really good smart bomb truck.
icegreentea2 5y ago
Foxbat project predated Soviet knowledge of the Blackbird. High speed, high altitude intercept was a role they anticipated needing based on American bomber evolution (B-58 and planned B-70) and extrapolating from U-2. The Foxbat doesn't necessarily need to be as quick as its targets. In one way you could imagine the Foxbat as a gigantic first stage for missiles. Soviet missiles were technically capable of outspeeding even the Blackbird, but the challenge was the time and energy it took to get to altitude. High speed, high altitude interceptors could help mitigate those problems.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Indeed, if launched at a high enough altitude and velocity, something like the R-40 would have been significantly faster than the SR-71 at over Mach 4. The other part of the equation is that at high speeds such an aircraft would be an easy target - any serious evasive action would require it to slow down unrecoverably, or simply destroy it. Meanwhile, the massive heat signature would mean any use of ECM or stealth characteristics would be unlikely to succeed, as each plane carried both radar and infrared versions of these missiles. Most likely, unless the Soviet air defences didn't manage to detect the SR-71, it would have been shot down, which is presumably why it never overflew the USSR.
  - zip1234 5y ago
    The reason it didn't overfly was political. The Gary Powers incident being the main initiator of that policy. It overflew Vietnam and had loads of missiles shot at it by Soviet SAMs with Soviet SAM operators. Mainly it flew too fast and too high for those to hit it.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      As far as I'm aware, the MiG-25 is not a surface-to-air missile. There were no MiG-25s in Vietnam either. The SR-71 was fast enough to avoid surface-to-air missiles, but it was much too slow to avoid the air-to-air missiles carried by a MiG-25.
sudosysgen 5y ago
The MiG-25 doesn't need to be faster than the SR-71. It just needs to have a certain fraction of the speed to be able to intercept it at an angle. At the high altitudes and speeds the Blackbird would have to go to evade a MiG-25, it would have no hope at all of evading a missile.
- MegaButts 5y ago
  > At the high altitudes and speeds the Blackbird would have to go to evade a MiG-25, it would have no hope at all of evading a missile. I thought the SR-71 was faster than missiles? https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/forget-stealth%E2%80%94-sr-71-blackbird-could-simply-outrun-missiles-120021 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/forget-stealth%E2%80%...
  - zip1234 5y ago
    Missiles are faster but start in a far disadvantaged position. The missile has to start from 0 speed and 0 altitude. By the time the missile is at speed and altitude, it is too late given the speed of the SR-71.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      SAMs have to start at 0 speed and 0 altitude. An R-40 launched from a MiG-25 would start at Mach 3+ and 30km altitude.
  - rtkwe 5y ago
    From your own article: > In effect, by the time it took a SAM system could lock onto an SR-71 traveling at Mach 3 and launch a missile, the Blackbird was already moving beyond the effective range of the missile. It wasn't purely faster than the missiles, it was fast enough to get out of range of radar and tracking for ground based missiles and beyond the effective range of the missile before it could reach the jet. Fired from an already moving jet at altitude missiles would have a longer effective range as it would spend less fuel getting to speed and gaining altitude.
  - 5y ago
flohofwoe 5y ago
I seem to remember having read in a German print magazine (https://www.fliegerrevue.aero/ https://www.fliegerrevue.aero/) that Mig-25's stationed in East Germany (or was it Poland?) were supposed (and trained) to intercept incoming Blackbirds over the Baltic Sea, which could have theoretically worked even if the Mig would be slightly slower by using the right "approach path" and coming in behind the Blackbird in weapon range for a short time window.

TremendousJudge 5y ago

Actually, the MiG-25 was designed to catch the XB-70 Valkyrie, which is why top speed and cost were the priority requirements. Speed because it needed to catch it, and cost because there had to be a lot of them built if they wanted to protect the entire territory from supersonic nuclear bombers. And it should've been able to catch the supposed mach 3.1 speed of the XB-70. The Valkyrie was cancelled of course, but the Soviet Union kept using (and selling) the jet.

quercusa 5y ago
The remaining XB-70 would be reason enough to visit the US AF Museum (Dayton, Ohio) - it's a stunning plane. That said, the museum is easily worth two days.
geocrasher 5y ago
Oh, my memory did not serve me well in this case. Thanks for the correction! The XB-70 is an amazing aircraft.
HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
Didn't the XB-70 become the B-1?
- icegreentea2 5y ago
  Kinda not really? The XB-70 cancellation left a hole (next generation strategic bomber) that was eventually filled by the B-1. But the initial B-1(A) was envisioned to be somewhat lower speed, but still fast (Mach 2), and specifically a low altitude penetrator (XB-70 was a high speed, high altitude plane). It then got reworked into the B-1B which is uh... weird role. It's even slower than the B-1A, somewhat more stealthy, and really supposed to be used as a cruise missile truck. Arguable how much value the B-1B really provided.
  - rjsw 5y ago
    The B-1B seems to be a really good smart bomb truck.

icegreentea2 5y ago

Foxbat project predated Soviet knowledge of the Blackbird. High speed, high altitude intercept was a role they anticipated needing based on American bomber evolution (B-58 and planned B-70) and extrapolating from U-2. The Foxbat doesn't necessarily need to be as quick as its targets. In one way you could imagine the Foxbat as a gigantic first stage for missiles. Soviet missiles were technically capable of outspeeding even the Blackbird, but the challenge was the time and energy it took to get to altitude. High speed, high altitude interceptors could help mitigate those problems.

sudosysgen 5y ago
Indeed, if launched at a high enough altitude and velocity, something like the R-40 would have been significantly faster than the SR-71 at over Mach 4. The other part of the equation is that at high speeds such an aircraft would be an easy target - any serious evasive action would require it to slow down unrecoverably, or simply destroy it. Meanwhile, the massive heat signature would mean any use of ECM or stealth characteristics would be unlikely to succeed, as each plane carried both radar and infrared versions of these missiles. Most likely, unless the Soviet air defences didn't manage to detect the SR-71, it would have been shot down, which is presumably why it never overflew the USSR.
- zip1234 5y ago
  The reason it didn't overfly was political. The Gary Powers incident being the main initiator of that policy. It overflew Vietnam and had loads of missiles shot at it by Soviet SAMs with Soviet SAM operators. Mainly it flew too fast and too high for those to hit it.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    As far as I'm aware, the MiG-25 is not a surface-to-air missile. There were no MiG-25s in Vietnam either. The SR-71 was fast enough to avoid surface-to-air missiles, but it was much too slow to avoid the air-to-air missiles carried by a MiG-25.

sudosysgen 5y ago

The MiG-25 doesn't need to be faster than the SR-71. It just needs to have a certain fraction of the speed to be able to intercept it at an angle. At the high altitudes and speeds the Blackbird would have to go to evade a MiG-25, it would have no hope at all of evading a missile.

MegaButts 5y ago
> At the high altitudes and speeds the Blackbird would have to go to evade a MiG-25, it would have no hope at all of evading a missile. I thought the SR-71 was faster than missiles? https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/forget-stealth%E2%80%94-sr-71-blackbird-could-simply-outrun-missiles-120021 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/forget-stealth%E2%80%...
- zip1234 5y ago
  Missiles are faster but start in a far disadvantaged position. The missile has to start from 0 speed and 0 altitude. By the time the missile is at speed and altitude, it is too late given the speed of the SR-71.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    SAMs have to start at 0 speed and 0 altitude. An R-40 launched from a MiG-25 would start at Mach 3+ and 30km altitude.
- rtkwe 5y ago
  From your own article: > In effect, by the time it took a SAM system could lock onto an SR-71 traveling at Mach 3 and launch a missile, the Blackbird was already moving beyond the effective range of the missile. It wasn't purely faster than the missiles, it was fast enough to get out of range of radar and tracking for ground based missiles and beyond the effective range of the missile before it could reach the jet. Fired from an already moving jet at altitude missiles would have a longer effective range as it would spend less fuel getting to speed and gaining altitude.
- 5y ago

flohofwoe 5y ago

I seem to remember having read in a German print magazine (https://www.fliegerrevue.aero/ https://www.fliegerrevue.aero/) that Mig-25's stationed in East Germany (or was it Poland?) were supposed (and trained) to intercept incoming Blackbirds over the Baltic Sea, which could have theoretically worked even if the Mig would be slightly slower by using the right "approach path" and coming in behind the Blackbird in weapon range for a short time window.