5 ms·

SF seems pretty insane these days. It makes NYC (even post covid) look like Disneyland.

Bud 5y ago
Key word: "seems". Any evaluation vs. historical crime levels (especially violent crime levels) will reveal that this is little more than a blip. Yes, the Tenderloin is a complete mess. Yes, it's true that the DA is experimenting with measures that are different from the usual mass-incarceration approach. Yes, this is causing some issues. The rest of SF is extremely safe by any reasonable standards.
- csande17 5y ago
  Violent crime levels as reported by the police departments who are allegedly ignoring all the crime, or are you getting your data from some other source?
  - KarlKemp 5y ago
    Violent crime rates overall are well correlated with murder rates. Murder is pretty hard to ignore and rather unlikely to not be reported.
    - csande17 5y ago
      It is not clear to me that correlation would hold if there were dramatic changes to the reporting and enforcement of non-murder crimes. (And that's assuming that murders are in fact being reported at the same rate, and not being misclassified by police as "accidental deaths" or something.)
  - pjlegato 5y ago
    SFPD is not ignoring crime; they are vastly understaffed, as a result of London Breed's "defund the police" move in 2020. They do not have the resources to respond to all crime anymore. They have to do triage with the depleted resources they have available. They only have enough officers on duty to respond to the most serious violent crimes (and sometimes, not even that.) Everything else is tier 2.
    - Cenk 5y ago
      The SFPD has not been “defunded”. > For the proposed 2021-22 budget, the San Francisco Police Department’s allocation will decrease by $6 million, from about $668 million to $661 million. Those cuts can nearly all be attributed to decreased demand for police at the airport. However, in the following fiscal year, the city projects the police budget will increase once again to $689 million. That’s close to the police budget’s all-time high of $692 million in FY 2019-20. By way of comparison, in FY 2010-11, the police budget weighed in at $445 million. https://www.sfweekly.com/news/is-san-francisco-re-funding-the-police/ https://www.sfweekly.com/news/is-san-francisco-re-funding-th...
      - pjlegato 5y ago
        On the contrary; London Breed cut the SFPD budget by $120 million in 2020[1]. They are nearly 50% below "fully staffed" officer levels. Ask any SFPD officer about this, or call a station. They're generally happy to complain and tell you all about it. [1] https://nypost.com/2021/12/15/behind-london-breeds-defund-the-police-turnaround-in-san-francisco/ https://nypost.com/2021/12/15/behind-london-breeds-defund-th... and numerous other sources; Google it.
        Cenk 5y ago
        No, that did not happen. Please read the link I posted.
    - jeffbee 5y ago
      The sworn force level in SF is higher than in some recent years. The SFPD has gone on a tacit strike because they are a right-wing gang who are trying to overthrow the district attorney.
    - PenguinCoder 5y ago
      > do not have the resources to respond to all crime anymore. This is bullshit. That's their job, to respond to crimes. What else are they doing with their resources?? They have resources enough to try to do the job, they just don't care enough to actually do it.
- thebean11 5y ago
  Are people even bothering to report muggings and similar crimes in SF anymore?
  - Bud 5y ago
    Are they bothering in NYC? Nope.
    - thebean11 5y ago
      I've been in both places recently and currently live in NYC. We may have to agree to disagree because to me, the difference is pretty stark.
  - brimble 5y ago
    If they need to use insurance (say, on a phone) or are getting credit cards stolen in these incidents, then they probably are. Or passports, drivers licenses, et c. You don't report most crimes to the police because you expect them to solve them, anyway, because they won't even try, even if you can practically hand them all the evidence they need. That's true almost everywhere, not just SF. They're too busy with infractions that let them levy fines or confiscate lots of expensive stuff. You do it to check bureaucratic checkboxes with private entities that you'll need to deal with to fix various related problems.
game_the0ry 5y ago
I lived in NYC post covid. Trust me, it's no Disneyland.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  I lived in NYC post covid. Trust me, it's no Disneyland. I lived in NYC in the 70's. Trust me, comparatively, even post-COVID, NYC is still Disneyland.
  - joemazerino 5y ago
    NYC from the 70s is in the grips of a revival.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dogman144 5y ago
  Not great but not bad. Definitely elevated risks downtown past midnight in areas that used to very safe despite looking grungy, the anti-Asian hate crimes are awful to watch, def saw crack smoked on a subway platform under a jacket once or four times, and Harolds Square/Penn Station is.. not great. However, staying vigilant in the key subway stations on the around midtown seems to cover most of the feelings of risk. editing - hopefully not coming off as dismissive of the legit very concerning crimes that have happened. It feels like the bad stuff that deviates from the norm is really bad vs crime in similar contexts/places in the 2010s, but beyond that never felt unsafe but perhaps a higher requirement for street smarts that didn't feel as important in 2010s NYC Disneyland for wealthy folks.

Bud 5y ago

Key word: "seems". Any evaluation vs. historical crime levels (especially violent crime levels) will reveal that this is little more than a blip. Yes, the Tenderloin is a complete mess. Yes, it's true that the DA is experimenting with measures that are different from the usual mass-incarceration approach. Yes, this is causing some issues. The rest of SF is extremely safe by any reasonable standards.

csande17 5y ago
Violent crime levels as reported by the police departments who are allegedly ignoring all the crime, or are you getting your data from some other source?
- KarlKemp 5y ago
  Violent crime rates overall are well correlated with murder rates. Murder is pretty hard to ignore and rather unlikely to not be reported.
  - csande17 5y ago
    It is not clear to me that correlation would hold if there were dramatic changes to the reporting and enforcement of non-murder crimes. (And that's assuming that murders are in fact being reported at the same rate, and not being misclassified by police as "accidental deaths" or something.)
- pjlegato 5y ago
  SFPD is not ignoring crime; they are vastly understaffed, as a result of London Breed's "defund the police" move in 2020. They do not have the resources to respond to all crime anymore. They have to do triage with the depleted resources they have available. They only have enough officers on duty to respond to the most serious violent crimes (and sometimes, not even that.) Everything else is tier 2.
  - Cenk 5y ago
    The SFPD has not been “defunded”. > For the proposed 2021-22 budget, the San Francisco Police Department’s allocation will decrease by $6 million, from about $668 million to $661 million. Those cuts can nearly all be attributed to decreased demand for police at the airport. However, in the following fiscal year, the city projects the police budget will increase once again to $689 million. That’s close to the police budget’s all-time high of $692 million in FY 2019-20. By way of comparison, in FY 2010-11, the police budget weighed in at $445 million. https://www.sfweekly.com/news/is-san-francisco-re-funding-the-police/ https://www.sfweekly.com/news/is-san-francisco-re-funding-th...
    - pjlegato 5y ago
      On the contrary; London Breed cut the SFPD budget by $120 million in 2020[1]. They are nearly 50% below "fully staffed" officer levels. Ask any SFPD officer about this, or call a station. They're generally happy to complain and tell you all about it. [1] https://nypost.com/2021/12/15/behind-london-breeds-defund-the-police-turnaround-in-san-francisco/ https://nypost.com/2021/12/15/behind-london-breeds-defund-th... and numerous other sources; Google it.
      - Cenk 5y ago
        No, that did not happen. Please read the link I posted.
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    The sworn force level in SF is higher than in some recent years. The SFPD has gone on a tacit strike because they are a right-wing gang who are trying to overthrow the district attorney.
  - PenguinCoder 5y ago
    > do not have the resources to respond to all crime anymore. This is bullshit. That's their job, to respond to crimes. What else are they doing with their resources?? They have resources enough to try to do the job, they just don't care enough to actually do it.
thebean11 5y ago
Are people even bothering to report muggings and similar crimes in SF anymore?
- Bud 5y ago
  Are they bothering in NYC? Nope.
  - thebean11 5y ago
    I've been in both places recently and currently live in NYC. We may have to agree to disagree because to me, the difference is pretty stark.
- brimble 5y ago
  If they need to use insurance (say, on a phone) or are getting credit cards stolen in these incidents, then they probably are. Or passports, drivers licenses, et c. You don't report most crimes to the police because you expect them to solve them, anyway, because they won't even try, even if you can practically hand them all the evidence they need. That's true almost everywhere, not just SF. They're too busy with infractions that let them levy fines or confiscate lots of expensive stuff. You do it to check bureaucratic checkboxes with private entities that you'll need to deal with to fix various related problems.

game_the0ry 5y ago

I lived in NYC post covid. Trust me, it's no Disneyland.

reaperducer 5y ago
I lived in NYC post covid. Trust me, it's no Disneyland. I lived in NYC in the 70's. Trust me, comparatively, even post-COVID, NYC is still Disneyland.
- joemazerino 5y ago
  NYC from the 70s is in the grips of a revival.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dogman144 5y ago
Not great but not bad. Definitely elevated risks downtown past midnight in areas that used to very safe despite looking grungy, the anti-Asian hate crimes are awful to watch, def saw crack smoked on a subway platform under a jacket once or four times, and Harolds Square/Penn Station is.. not great. However, staying vigilant in the key subway stations on the around midtown seems to cover most of the feelings of risk. editing - hopefully not coming off as dismissive of the legit very concerning crimes that have happened. It feels like the bad stuff that deviates from the norm is really bad vs crime in similar contexts/places in the 2010s, but beyond that never felt unsafe but perhaps a higher requirement for street smarts that didn't feel as important in 2010s NYC Disneyland for wealthy folks.