4 ms·

Right? I remember years ago when I lived in SF, body parts turned up in suitcases outside of Twitter's offices. Why is this a surprise that cities are dangerous

Right? I remember years ago when I lived in SF, body parts turned up in suitcases outside of Twitter's offices. Why is this a surprise that cities are dangerous places? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/01/29/san-francisco-suitcase-body-parts-twitter-headquarters/22511833/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/01/29/san-francisco... edit: I'm sorry everyone is taking my statement to mean that all cities are places where out of control crime happens (which I think is making a presumption about crime in SF). If you believe your city is a safe place or safer than SF great. But that doesn't make your city not a place where plenty of danger is to be found.

alanh 5y ago
Your amended comment now boils down to a tautology: "Danger varies but is never zero." Yeah, welcome to Planet Earth. Your original comment was a straw-man attempt to dismiss all criticism of SF's crime as risible naiveté. So what are you actually saying?
- ModernMech 5y ago
  > Your original comment was a straw-man attempt to dismiss all criticism of SF's crime as risible naiveté. So what are you actually saying? Talk about a straw man! I didn't dismiss all criticisms of SF's crime (where did I do so?), I dismissed this specific criticism of SF's crime, pointing at their risible naivete for seemingly completely disregarding the history of violence in the neighborhood that they moved into. If body parts had been found in suitcases next door, and you still choose to move in, you can't cite crime as a reason you feel the neighborhood has gone to hell. All I was really doing was agreeing with the parent and pointing out the general tone of the neighborhood. So sorry I offended everyone with my quip.
baq 5y ago
Not all cities are… things like that don’t happen in my city
- ModernMech 5y ago
  No one has ever been brutally murdered in your city? I'd love to know the name...
  - thebean11 5y ago
    Anywhere with lots of people will have murders, that should be pretty obvious. If you choose a population outside of cities of the same size, there will be murders there too.
  - JimDabell 5y ago
    This is just learned helplessness. Out of control violent crime is not an inevitable part of city life. It doesn’t have to be this way at all. Feel free to compare the violent crime rates in my city (Singapore) to San Francisco.
    - ModernMech 5y ago
      Out of control violent crime is not an inevitable part of SF life either, but it seems like that's the presumption about what the situation is in SF. Moreover, I didn't say anything about crime or crime rates, I said cities are dangerous places. As in there's danger in cities, which I don't think is a false or disagreeable statement. I mean, you take Singapore as an example, Singapore has a sex trafficking problem. Literally my friend's mom just went there, and her favorite story was about all the American guys she met taking sex holidays.
      - notreallyserio 5y ago
        > As in there's danger in cities, which I don't think is a false or disagreeable statement. If this is truly what you're saying then why say it at all? What value do you feel it contributes to the conversation? Yes, there is danger in cities. Sometimes it rains in small towns. Restaurants serve food, some of which is good and some bad. All equally useless statements.
        5y ago
llampx 5y ago
Excuse me? Not all cities are dangerous places at all!
- compsciphd 5y ago
  heck, I feel safer walking around tel aviv, even with yesterdays events, than I did just walking from the SFPL main branch to the Metreon.
Mikeb85 5y ago
> Why is this a surprise that cities are dangerous places? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/01/29/san-francisco https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/01/29/san-francisco... Except they aren't. Western European cities are incredibly safe.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  And yet the only place I was ever mugged was Lisbon, even having lived in SF on Haight for years and worked on 2nd street.
  - azinman2 5y ago
    My friends and I were attacked by a gang on New Years completely unprovoked in Paris in 2000, which is also where my dad had to fend off another hoard of people trying to rob him while on crutches 10 years before that.
    - sebmellen 5y ago
      Well, Paris has changed a lot. I believe it's a rapidly degenerating city.
  - paddez 5y ago
    Your weirdly specific anecdote doesn't really contradict the data on safety across western cities.
    - ModernMech 5y ago
      My original claim was that cities are dangerous places. This relatively anodyne claim was met with claims that not all cities are dangerous (a false statement; show me any city and I'll show you where to find plenty of danger), which doesn't refute anything I said, let alone bring up any data. In fact, they characterize their argument as "incredible", so I don't know how I'm supposed to take that. Like, if you're telling me something is incredible but you don't back that up with any credible data, what am I supposed to say? It seems like we're all going with our personal experience here as 0 data have been brought up or offered by anyone. If anyone wants to offer some data about the safety of western cities in Europe, I'll show you some data that demonstrates they are dangerous. The only thing we'll be quibbling over is degrees of danger and how much one city is more dangerous than another, but again that doesn't refute a single thing I said in my original post, which was just to say that cities are dangerous. Which if you are upset about the usage of the word "are" in this context, then change it to "can be" to make you feel better.
Eric_WVGG 5y ago
Nonsense. Highest murders per capita are far higher in smaller towns. You're much more likely to get shot by a drunk angry husband anywhere in Wyoming than NYC. San Francisco is a fcking mess — mostly by decision, it appears — but "cities are dangerous places" is just silly.
- hackernewds 5y ago
  Fruits of an experiment in progressivism driven by the DA. I once had a break-in and laptop stolen, tried to call the cops and to my alarm no one answered. Called another number and was told to call 911, again no answer. Filed an online report, no follow up. 1 week later, car broken in again in a parking lot with surveillance camera.
  - Eric_WVGG 5y ago
    yeah cops suck what does that have to do with the topic at hand?
    - jker 5y ago
      You don’t think there might be a connection between rampant crime and ineffective policing?
      - jeffbee 5y ago
        There certainly is a connection but not necessarily the one you’re suggesting. “I called the cops and they didn’t show up therefore progressive justice policies are bad” is quite a leap. Can’t it also be that cops are just jerks, who largely don’t live in the city, who are happy to collect the paychecks and watch the city fall apart because they are personally invested in the political narrative? There are plenty of videos floating around out there of cops refusing to take reports on break-ins and robberies and even assaults. It’s really odd to me that anyone on a site like this would take the side of the armed authoritarian gang in this debate.
        5y ago
gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
> Why is this a surprise that cities are dangerous places? US cities. Toronto, for its faults, is a large city which is very safe. Unless you’re a gangster. I bet I could walk around Jane/Finch on my phone and have better personal security than the nice area of many US cities. It’s sad that you can’t solve the problem as a nation, because IMO cities are the figureheads of a civilization. Look at Detroit. The Rome of High Modernity 70 years ago, now a rotten husk.

alanh 5y ago

Your amended comment now boils down to a tautology: "Danger varies but is never zero." Yeah, welcome to Planet Earth. Your original comment was a straw-man attempt to dismiss all criticism of SF's crime as risible naiveté. So what are you actually saying?

ModernMech 5y ago
> Your original comment was a straw-man attempt to dismiss all criticism of SF's crime as risible naiveté. So what are you actually saying? Talk about a straw man! I didn't dismiss all criticisms of SF's crime (where did I do so?), I dismissed this specific criticism of SF's crime, pointing at their risible naivete for seemingly completely disregarding the history of violence in the neighborhood that they moved into. If body parts had been found in suitcases next door, and you still choose to move in, you can't cite crime as a reason you feel the neighborhood has gone to hell. All I was really doing was agreeing with the parent and pointing out the general tone of the neighborhood. So sorry I offended everyone with my quip.

baq 5y ago

Not all cities are… things like that don’t happen in my city

ModernMech 5y ago
No one has ever been brutally murdered in your city? I'd love to know the name...
- thebean11 5y ago
  Anywhere with lots of people will have murders, that should be pretty obvious. If you choose a population outside of cities of the same size, there will be murders there too.
- JimDabell 5y ago
  This is just learned helplessness. Out of control violent crime is not an inevitable part of city life. It doesn’t have to be this way at all. Feel free to compare the violent crime rates in my city (Singapore) to San Francisco.
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    Out of control violent crime is not an inevitable part of SF life either, but it seems like that's the presumption about what the situation is in SF. Moreover, I didn't say anything about crime or crime rates, I said cities are dangerous places. As in there's danger in cities, which I don't think is a false or disagreeable statement. I mean, you take Singapore as an example, Singapore has a sex trafficking problem. Literally my friend's mom just went there, and her favorite story was about all the American guys she met taking sex holidays.
    - notreallyserio 5y ago
      > As in there's danger in cities, which I don't think is a false or disagreeable statement. If this is truly what you're saying then why say it at all? What value do you feel it contributes to the conversation? Yes, there is danger in cities. Sometimes it rains in small towns. Restaurants serve food, some of which is good and some bad. All equally useless statements.
      - 5y ago

llampx 5y ago

Excuse me? Not all cities are dangerous places at all!

compsciphd 5y ago
heck, I feel safer walking around tel aviv, even with yesterdays events, than I did just walking from the SFPL main branch to the Metreon.

Mikeb85 5y ago

> Why is this a surprise that cities are dangerous places? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/01/29/san-francisco https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/01/29/san-francisco... Except they aren't. Western European cities are incredibly safe.

ModernMech 5y ago
And yet the only place I was ever mugged was Lisbon, even having lived in SF on Haight for years and worked on 2nd street.
- azinman2 5y ago
  My friends and I were attacked by a gang on New Years completely unprovoked in Paris in 2000, which is also where my dad had to fend off another hoard of people trying to rob him while on crutches 10 years before that.
  - sebmellen 5y ago
    Well, Paris has changed a lot. I believe it's a rapidly degenerating city.
- paddez 5y ago
  Your weirdly specific anecdote doesn't really contradict the data on safety across western cities.
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    My original claim was that cities are dangerous places. This relatively anodyne claim was met with claims that not all cities are dangerous (a false statement; show me any city and I'll show you where to find plenty of danger), which doesn't refute anything I said, let alone bring up any data. In fact, they characterize their argument as "incredible", so I don't know how I'm supposed to take that. Like, if you're telling me something is incredible but you don't back that up with any credible data, what am I supposed to say? It seems like we're all going with our personal experience here as 0 data have been brought up or offered by anyone. If anyone wants to offer some data about the safety of western cities in Europe, I'll show you some data that demonstrates they are dangerous. The only thing we'll be quibbling over is degrees of danger and how much one city is more dangerous than another, but again that doesn't refute a single thing I said in my original post, which was just to say that cities are dangerous. Which if you are upset about the usage of the word "are" in this context, then change it to "can be" to make you feel better.

Eric_WVGG 5y ago

Nonsense. Highest murders per capita are far higher in smaller towns. You're much more likely to get shot by a drunk angry husband anywhere in Wyoming than NYC. San Francisco is a fcking mess — mostly by decision, it appears — but "cities are dangerous places" is just silly.

hackernewds 5y ago
Fruits of an experiment in progressivism driven by the DA. I once had a break-in and laptop stolen, tried to call the cops and to my alarm no one answered. Called another number and was told to call 911, again no answer. Filed an online report, no follow up. 1 week later, car broken in again in a parking lot with surveillance camera.
- Eric_WVGG 5y ago
  yeah cops suck what does that have to do with the topic at hand?
  - jker 5y ago
    You don’t think there might be a connection between rampant crime and ineffective policing?
    - jeffbee 5y ago
      There certainly is a connection but not necessarily the one you’re suggesting. “I called the cops and they didn’t show up therefore progressive justice policies are bad” is quite a leap. Can’t it also be that cops are just jerks, who largely don’t live in the city, who are happy to collect the paychecks and watch the city fall apart because they are personally invested in the political narrative? There are plenty of videos floating around out there of cops refusing to take reports on break-ins and robberies and even assaults. It’s really odd to me that anyone on a site like this would take the side of the armed authoritarian gang in this debate.
      - 5y ago

gunfighthacksaw 5y ago

> Why is this a surprise that cities are dangerous places? US cities. Toronto, for its faults, is a large city which is very safe. Unless you’re a gangster. I bet I could walk around Jane/Finch on my phone and have better personal security than the nice area of many US cities. It’s sad that you can’t solve the problem as a nation, because IMO cities are the figureheads of a civilization. Look at Detroit. The Rome of High Modernity 70 years ago, now a rotten husk.