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I’m a full on believer. I even own an EV but I think this alarmism is just making people numb. I think there’s a whole generation out there that never read “th

I’m a full on believer. I even own an EV but I think this alarmism is just making people numb. I think there’s a whole generation out there that never read “the boy who cried wolf”.

71a54xd 5y ago
Yep, couldn't agree more. I compost, watch what I buy and also own an EV. But as someone who went to engineering school I fully acknowledge that my actions basically don't even move the needle. There will always be people with less education or simply less means than me that quite frankly just have bigger issues. I think the big mistake alarmists make is blaming consumers and not huge companies like Exxon. Even among my educated friends, it's clear that people acknowledge climate change but the ever increasing alarmism of "the world will end in 46 months" is flat out not helping. I barely got through 15 minutes of "Don't Look Up" which was clearly a bizarre politically charged hit-piece. In the meantime I'll keep working with my local town's redwood conservancy and continue growing redwood saplings in my rural greenhouse :)
bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
They read it, or had it read to them - but they learned the wrong lesson.
- janto 5y ago
  Maybe they believe in the usefulness of the "repeating it three times makes it true" rhetorical device.
kgran 5y ago
>I even own an EV I don't want to be that guy, but driving an EV (unless you drive some sort of electric bicycle or scooter) is not that environmentally friendly as the manufacturers and marketing people want you to believe. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_impact_on_the_environment#/media/File:Wynes_Nicholas_CO2_emissions_savings.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_impact_on_the_environmen...
- Eric_WVGG 5y ago
  For real. Get a bicycle.
- mapster 5y ago
  Another bad faith argument. It is better than driving a CO2 emitter. Full stop.
- mwint 5y ago
  If I'm reading that graph right, it looks like driving an EV is about halfway between an ICE car and no car? A 50% reduction seems pretty decent to me.
- jordanbeiber 5y ago
  I’m gonna be THIS guy, though: first - there’s more to our environment than co2. Prolonging life and reducing negative health impacts are another bonus. Yes, there is still an environmental cost of the production of EVs but these vehicles don’t emit CO2 or greenhouse gases and so their lifetime carbon footprint is much lower. For example, a recent Reuters study found that a Tesla Model 3 would need to be driven for 13,500 miles (21,725 km) before it does less harm to the environment than a Toyota Corolla: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/lifetime-carbon-emissions-electric-vehicles-vs-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/lifeti...
sirspacey 5y ago
Yes but the generation after that (my kids & their friends) is “We are probably already dead” Facing existential suicide is something us Cold War kids remember It does make a difference to go through the grieving process, denial is a part of it, because it takes radical commitments to break the cycle. We’re not even close to a radical commitment yet. We can’t even turn off Russian oil globally, much less fossil fuels as a whole. But climatetech is (finally) established as a legitimate space. Now we need govtech to change how we make political decisions. Because climate change is a symptom of how our political systems work - reactionary & summative instead of proactive & iterative.
cogman10 5y ago
The big issue with climate change is it's gradual. There will never be a point where "Oh shit, everything has exploded!". Instead, it will be every year that deserts will get bigger, it will rain a little less, and a few more extreme weather events happen. This will happen just a little bit more year by year. There won't really be a point where you can say "This was the year climate change became really bad!" instead it will take looking at the current state and comparing it to the year 2000 or 1980 or whatever. And by that time, you've got a full generation that does not remember what those years were like. That's the thing that scares me the most about climate change. It won't be something that will hurt all at once, instead it will just be a steady increase of bad events. And by the time it becomes unworkable, it's too late.
- titzer 5y ago
  This. You've hit on the "shifting baseline" phenomena[1]. We cannot remember what our grandparents experienced in their daily lives. I'll add the ongoing extinction crisis that is picking up steam, itself a knock-on effect of us gobbling up all land resources and also climate change, and pollutants. I remember days in the park in the 1980s where the air would be filled with bees and insects of all kinds. The insects are so few and far between. Like, I don't even see moths swarming around streetlights anymore. It's eerie. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifting_baseline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifting_baseline
  - cogman10 5y ago
    Oh yeah, in just my 36 years of life, I've seen things change pretty drastically and have seen family videos for stuff I don't remember. When I was born, my hometown would regularly see around 10ft of snow (I've seen the videos). During my childhood, that reduced down to around 2->5 ft of snow. Now, my home town is lucky to see 2->3 inches of snow. This drought has caused major issues for a town that was built around farming. It's driven them to pull more water from the aquifer which itself has been in pretty rapid decline. Everyone just keeps drilling deeper and deeper pumps (30ft used to be enough, now 100+ft is what people are drilling). These sorts of slow moving collapses are terrifying to watch. And, at the same time, infuriating to hear the deniers throughout my life claim it's a hoax/not real.
tuatoru 5y ago
For people on six figure salaries, owning an EV is costless virtue signalling. Do something that costs you, and you have better credibility. Here's my litmus test: commit to never flying anywhere ever again.
- titzer 5y ago
  We could have carbon-neutral aviation, and not with electric jets. We would need to develop an infrastructure capable of producing jet fuel from other sources, e.g. nuclear power. I don't think we'll ever get energy density from batteries even close to what liquid hydrocarbons offer. We just can't get said hydrocarbons from fossil sources.
  - jefurii 5y ago
    Better yet: airships or even ship ships with decent internet connections and coworking spaces. You could work on the way and the extra travel time wouldn't use up your vacation days.
- mwint 5y ago
  As one of those people, it isn't always. I'm politically opposite those typically associated with virtual signaling, and I drive an EV because it's way cheaper (total cost of ownership), more fun, and more pleasant than an ICE car. Environmental concerns didn't factor into my choice at all - far more important to me is the thrill of silent, uninterrupted acceleration and not spending time at gas stations.

I’m a full on believer. I even own an EV but I think this alarmism is just making people numb. I think there’s a whole generation out there that never read “the boy who cried wolf”.

71a54xd 5y ago

Yep, couldn't agree more. I compost, watch what I buy and also own an EV. But as someone who went to engineering school I fully acknowledge that my actions basically don't even move the needle. There will always be people with less education or simply less means than me that quite frankly just have bigger issues. I think the big mistake alarmists make is blaming consumers and not huge companies like Exxon. Even among my educated friends, it's clear that people acknowledge climate change but the ever increasing alarmism of "the world will end in 46 months" is flat out not helping. I barely got through 15 minutes of "Don't Look Up" which was clearly a bizarre politically charged hit-piece. In the meantime I'll keep working with my local town's redwood conservancy and continue growing redwood saplings in my rural greenhouse :)

bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago

They read it, or had it read to them - but they learned the wrong lesson.

janto 5y ago
Maybe they believe in the usefulness of the "repeating it three times makes it true" rhetorical device.

kgran 5y ago

>I even own an EV I don't want to be that guy, but driving an EV (unless you drive some sort of electric bicycle or scooter) is not that environmentally friendly as the manufacturers and marketing people want you to believe. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_impact_on_the_environment#/media/File:Wynes_Nicholas_CO2_emissions_savings.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_impact_on_the_environmen...

Eric_WVGG 5y ago
For real. Get a bicycle.
mapster 5y ago
Another bad faith argument. It is better than driving a CO2 emitter. Full stop.
mwint 5y ago
If I'm reading that graph right, it looks like driving an EV is about halfway between an ICE car and no car? A 50% reduction seems pretty decent to me.
jordanbeiber 5y ago
I’m gonna be THIS guy, though: first - there’s more to our environment than co2. Prolonging life and reducing negative health impacts are another bonus. Yes, there is still an environmental cost of the production of EVs but these vehicles don’t emit CO2 or greenhouse gases and so their lifetime carbon footprint is much lower. For example, a recent Reuters study found that a Tesla Model 3 would need to be driven for 13,500 miles (21,725 km) before it does less harm to the environment than a Toyota Corolla: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/lifetime-carbon-emissions-electric-vehicles-vs-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/lifeti...

sirspacey 5y ago

Yes but the generation after that (my kids & their friends) is “We are probably already dead” Facing existential suicide is something us Cold War kids remember It does make a difference to go through the grieving process, denial is a part of it, because it takes radical commitments to break the cycle. We’re not even close to a radical commitment yet. We can’t even turn off Russian oil globally, much less fossil fuels as a whole. But climatetech is (finally) established as a legitimate space. Now we need govtech to change how we make political decisions. Because climate change is a symptom of how our political systems work - reactionary & summative instead of proactive & iterative.

cogman10 5y ago

The big issue with climate change is it's gradual. There will never be a point where "Oh shit, everything has exploded!". Instead, it will be every year that deserts will get bigger, it will rain a little less, and a few more extreme weather events happen. This will happen just a little bit more year by year. There won't really be a point where you can say "This was the year climate change became really bad!" instead it will take looking at the current state and comparing it to the year 2000 or 1980 or whatever. And by that time, you've got a full generation that does not remember what those years were like. That's the thing that scares me the most about climate change. It won't be something that will hurt all at once, instead it will just be a steady increase of bad events. And by the time it becomes unworkable, it's too late.

titzer 5y ago
This. You've hit on the "shifting baseline" phenomena[1]. We cannot remember what our grandparents experienced in their daily lives. I'll add the ongoing extinction crisis that is picking up steam, itself a knock-on effect of us gobbling up all land resources and also climate change, and pollutants. I remember days in the park in the 1980s where the air would be filled with bees and insects of all kinds. The insects are so few and far between. Like, I don't even see moths swarming around streetlights anymore. It's eerie. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifting_baseline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifting_baseline
- cogman10 5y ago
  Oh yeah, in just my 36 years of life, I've seen things change pretty drastically and have seen family videos for stuff I don't remember. When I was born, my hometown would regularly see around 10ft of snow (I've seen the videos). During my childhood, that reduced down to around 2->5 ft of snow. Now, my home town is lucky to see 2->3 inches of snow. This drought has caused major issues for a town that was built around farming. It's driven them to pull more water from the aquifer which itself has been in pretty rapid decline. Everyone just keeps drilling deeper and deeper pumps (30ft used to be enough, now 100+ft is what people are drilling). These sorts of slow moving collapses are terrifying to watch. And, at the same time, infuriating to hear the deniers throughout my life claim it's a hoax/not real.

tuatoru 5y ago

For people on six figure salaries, owning an EV is costless virtue signalling. Do something that costs you, and you have better credibility. Here's my litmus test: commit to never flying anywhere ever again.

titzer 5y ago
We could have carbon-neutral aviation, and not with electric jets. We would need to develop an infrastructure capable of producing jet fuel from other sources, e.g. nuclear power. I don't think we'll ever get energy density from batteries even close to what liquid hydrocarbons offer. We just can't get said hydrocarbons from fossil sources.
- jefurii 5y ago
  Better yet: airships or even ship ships with decent internet connections and coworking spaces. You could work on the way and the extra travel time wouldn't use up your vacation days.
mwint 5y ago
As one of those people, it isn't always. I'm politically opposite those typically associated with virtual signaling, and I drive an EV because it's way cheaper (total cost of ownership), more fun, and more pleasant than an ICE car. Environmental concerns didn't factor into my choice at all - far more important to me is the thrill of silent, uninterrupted acceleration and not spending time at gas stations.