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Bringing ID (government issued, with photo and basic life details) and being registered is also requirement in Czechia, along with hand counting the votes obvio

Bringing ID (government issued, with photo and basic life details) and being registered is also requirement in Czechia, along with hand counting the votes obviously. Honestly, when I first heard how US handles voting I couldn't believe how open to abuse it is. In a way, I'm surprised that election integrity hasn't been questioned sooner. Edit: To clarify, I don't believe the 2020 elections were affected by fraud, in fact they were proven not to be. Just that the process doesn't seem very trustworthy to me in general.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
a-priori 5y ago
Would it surprise you to hear that in Canada, we accept a very broad range of ID (a bank statement and a lease agreement for an apartment would do)? And even if you don't have any of that, you can still vote if another registered voter vouches for you? https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&do... You can also register on election night. I did this a couple years ago when there was a provincial election shortly after we moved. And yet we don't have widespread electoral fraud.
- LeapingLennie 5y ago
  In Australia we don't even need to present ID. Just tell the official your name and address and they cross it off a list. It's hard to believe a system that simple could work but as far as I know there haven't ever been any issues.
- Markoff 5y ago
  Vouching for you was acceptable in Slovakia/Czechia in past, but it seems they removed it in recent years since I can't find any information about it, but I clearly remember if election commitee member could confirm your identity or 1-2 other people they could let you vote even without any ID card. Btw. there is really no registration in Czechia/Slovakia, you will get voting tickets automatically to your permanent residence address without any additional registration, registration is necessary only if you want vote via mail or you want voting pass to vote outside your permanent residence.
tablespoon 5y ago
> Honestly, when I first heard how US handles voting I couldn't believe how open to abuse it is. In a way, I'm surprised that election integrity hasn't been questioned sooner. I'm surprised why voter ID has become such a partisan issue, specifically how intense the Democratic opposition to it has been. It's a sensible policy and it seems the concerns about "[X] not having ID" should be addressed by solving the problems preventing [X] from getting an ID. I mean it shouldn't be too hard: setup some government agency to help people with the bureaucratic labor around confirming identity and send people akin to census takers around to onboard people into the ID-getting process.
- Invictus0 5y ago
  It's simple: election margins are super slim right now, and Democrats are concerned that some sliver of their base--people too poor or busy or whatever to get an ID--will be disenfranchised as a result.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > It's simple: election margins are super slim right now, and Democrats are concerned that some sliver of their base--people too poor or busy or whatever to get an ID--will be disenfranchised as a result. Which I tried to directly address in my comment (at least the busy part, and the too poor part can easily be addressed by having the agency I proposed pay the fees for the ID). It's a solvable problem, and solving it seems like it would be clearly in the public interest (for way more reasons than just voting).
    - JAlexoid 5y ago
      All you have to do is shut down a DMV in a poor neighborhood - and viola - you just have indirectly reduced the number of people without photo IDs.
      - tablespoon 5y ago
        > All you have to do is shut down a DMV in a poor neighborhood - and viola - you just have indirectly reduced the number of people without photo IDs. I was imagining having an agency with people like a census-takers who would come to your home and handle whatever in-person stuff was necessary, which would make DMV locations a non-issue.
DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
The main issues with election integrity in the US are all the tactics used to cull voter lists (often removing legitimate voters), make it less convenient to vote (e.g., getting rid of early voting, not enough polling stations, voting only on workdays), and of course, gerrymandering (rigging district boundaries to allow one party to win far more seats than its overall vote share would imply). It would be sensible to have a national ID in the US and to use it in voting, but in practice, the voter ID issue is simply used by the Republican Party as another tactic to restrict voting. They know that Democratic voters are less likely to have ID, they intentionally include/exclude various forms of ID based on the voter demographics, and they are generally against measures that would ensure that every valid voter obtain ID. So yes, in a vacuum, voter ID sounds obvious. However, when you see how the issue is actually used in American politics, it's actually pretty sinister.
- clarionbell 5y ago
  Seems like proper solution would be to just issue IDs to people, maybe do it like in Czechia and dispense them against other proof of eligibility, like birth certificate, with an administrative charge for the paperwork. From where I sit it's a win. Administrative work will be easier, all cases of fraud will be harder, and arguments of nutjobs weakened. Not to mention the fact that people would trust the election process more, with all the added benefits. Really, voter IDs seem like a stupid hill to die on. Especially if you are already dealing with low trust in political system and cultural divides.
  - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
    Well, the very same party that is arguing for voter ID opposes efforts to make it easier to obtain ID. The debate over voter ID isn't a rational debate about how to make elections more secure. It's just another battleground in which the Republican Party sees an opportunity to shift election outcomes slightly in their own favor. They're not interested in a rational, balanced solution like you're proposing, because it might end up shifting election outcomes in the "wrong" direction. When you look at the list of election measures the Republican Party supports/opposes, it becomes quite clear what their goal is. They're against early voting, automatic voter registration, absentee voting (except for the military) and making election day a holiday, but they're in favor of voter ID and they engage in very heavy gerrymandering (leading to a divergence between national vote shares and numbers of seats won).
Markoff 5y ago
> Bringing ID (government issued, with photo and basic life details) Are you sure about this? I remember from past if election commission member knew you they could identify you even without any ID card or even if 2 other people could identify you it was sufficient to confirm your identity without any ID card. Was this option cancelled?
- clarionbell 5y ago
  Well, I'm not sure if it ever was legal to be honest. I know in presidential election it wasn't, and neither the last time during the parliamentary, presidential election or local referendum. I was commissioner for a couple of years so I should know. If you don't believe me you can look up the election law Zákon č. 247/1995 Sb. and go for paragraph 18, or 19. I'm not completely sure which one it is.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

a-priori 5y ago

Would it surprise you to hear that in Canada, we accept a very broad range of ID (a bank statement and a lease agreement for an apartment would do)? And even if you don't have any of that, you can still vote if another registered voter vouches for you? https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&do... You can also register on election night. I did this a couple years ago when there was a provincial election shortly after we moved. And yet we don't have widespread electoral fraud.

LeapingLennie 5y ago
In Australia we don't even need to present ID. Just tell the official your name and address and they cross it off a list. It's hard to believe a system that simple could work but as far as I know there haven't ever been any issues.
Markoff 5y ago
Vouching for you was acceptable in Slovakia/Czechia in past, but it seems they removed it in recent years since I can't find any information about it, but I clearly remember if election commitee member could confirm your identity or 1-2 other people they could let you vote even without any ID card. Btw. there is really no registration in Czechia/Slovakia, you will get voting tickets automatically to your permanent residence address without any additional registration, registration is necessary only if you want vote via mail or you want voting pass to vote outside your permanent residence.

tablespoon 5y ago

> Honestly, when I first heard how US handles voting I couldn't believe how open to abuse it is. In a way, I'm surprised that election integrity hasn't been questioned sooner. I'm surprised why voter ID has become such a partisan issue, specifically how intense the Democratic opposition to it has been. It's a sensible policy and it seems the concerns about "[X] not having ID" should be addressed by solving the problems preventing [X] from getting an ID. I mean it shouldn't be too hard: setup some government agency to help people with the bureaucratic labor around confirming identity and send people akin to census takers around to onboard people into the ID-getting process.

Invictus0 5y ago
It's simple: election margins are super slim right now, and Democrats are concerned that some sliver of their base--people too poor or busy or whatever to get an ID--will be disenfranchised as a result.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > It's simple: election margins are super slim right now, and Democrats are concerned that some sliver of their base--people too poor or busy or whatever to get an ID--will be disenfranchised as a result. Which I tried to directly address in my comment (at least the busy part, and the too poor part can easily be addressed by having the agency I proposed pay the fees for the ID). It's a solvable problem, and solving it seems like it would be clearly in the public interest (for way more reasons than just voting).
  - JAlexoid 5y ago
    All you have to do is shut down a DMV in a poor neighborhood - and viola - you just have indirectly reduced the number of people without photo IDs.
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > All you have to do is shut down a DMV in a poor neighborhood - and viola - you just have indirectly reduced the number of people without photo IDs. I was imagining having an agency with people like a census-takers who would come to your home and handle whatever in-person stuff was necessary, which would make DMV locations a non-issue.

DiogenesKynikos 5y ago

The main issues with election integrity in the US are all the tactics used to cull voter lists (often removing legitimate voters), make it less convenient to vote (e.g., getting rid of early voting, not enough polling stations, voting only on workdays), and of course, gerrymandering (rigging district boundaries to allow one party to win far more seats than its overall vote share would imply). It would be sensible to have a national ID in the US and to use it in voting, but in practice, the voter ID issue is simply used by the Republican Party as another tactic to restrict voting. They know that Democratic voters are less likely to have ID, they intentionally include/exclude various forms of ID based on the voter demographics, and they are generally against measures that would ensure that every valid voter obtain ID. So yes, in a vacuum, voter ID sounds obvious. However, when you see how the issue is actually used in American politics, it's actually pretty sinister.

clarionbell 5y ago
Seems like proper solution would be to just issue IDs to people, maybe do it like in Czechia and dispense them against other proof of eligibility, like birth certificate, with an administrative charge for the paperwork. From where I sit it's a win. Administrative work will be easier, all cases of fraud will be harder, and arguments of nutjobs weakened. Not to mention the fact that people would trust the election process more, with all the added benefits. Really, voter IDs seem like a stupid hill to die on. Especially if you are already dealing with low trust in political system and cultural divides.
- DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
  Well, the very same party that is arguing for voter ID opposes efforts to make it easier to obtain ID. The debate over voter ID isn't a rational debate about how to make elections more secure. It's just another battleground in which the Republican Party sees an opportunity to shift election outcomes slightly in their own favor. They're not interested in a rational, balanced solution like you're proposing, because it might end up shifting election outcomes in the "wrong" direction. When you look at the list of election measures the Republican Party supports/opposes, it becomes quite clear what their goal is. They're against early voting, automatic voter registration, absentee voting (except for the military) and making election day a holiday, but they're in favor of voter ID and they engage in very heavy gerrymandering (leading to a divergence between national vote shares and numbers of seats won).

Markoff 5y ago

> Bringing ID (government issued, with photo and basic life details) Are you sure about this? I remember from past if election commission member knew you they could identify you even without any ID card or even if 2 other people could identify you it was sufficient to confirm your identity without any ID card. Was this option cancelled?

clarionbell 5y ago
Well, I'm not sure if it ever was legal to be honest. I know in presidential election it wasn't, and neither the last time during the parliamentary, presidential election or local referendum. I was commissioner for a couple of years so I should know. If you don't believe me you can look up the election law Zákon č. 247/1995 Sb. and go for paragraph 18, or 19. I'm not completely sure which one it is.