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counter rant: I get great joy at socialization by working with people. It is something I've come to discover about myself, and I am not alone. And "work" doesn

counter rant: I get great joy at socialization by working with people. It is something I've come to discover about myself, and I am not alone. And "work" doesn't have to include a job, but "working" with people on a sports team, or doing renovation at home or any other thing where we are working together to do something. Many other social things people like to do just doesn't do it much for me, although I've gotten better at it as the decades have passed. It's not that I don't like leisure activities, it's just that my leisure activities are largely solo: video games, reading, tinkering on projects, etc. So I'm starting to get really annoyed at this idea that "work" is something orthogonal to socialization, when I think the opposite is more true. Connecting with people I work with is important, and I am not alone. Nor do I think I'm in the minority. You think it caters to people that just want to slack off. I think what you are describing creates a work environment devoid of joy and humanity. Working is not anti-human, it is a fundamental component of humanity.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
5150rc 5y ago
"Working is not anti-human, it is a fundamental component of humanity." Working is anti-human when that human has no choice but to work or else they become homeless and die in the street. For many, including myself, a job is a means to an end, not an extension of sociality. Apart of being human is understanding that other humans have a different perception of socialization and not being offended when they don't want to join you in small talk.
- tomtheelder 5y ago
  I think it's hard to classify that as anti-human when that has been the same for the entirety of our existence as a species. And to be honest on HN there's a lot more people getting offended by the idea that someone might enjoy small talk than vice versa.
- gilbetron 5y ago
  The entirety of our existence, and I mean all the way back when we were single-celled organisms, it has been work or die. It isn't until relatively recently that any other option generally represented itself. I'm not saying that people should be forced into smalltalk, and I'm not saying that people that "just want to work" have something wrong with them, I'm just pushing back on the notion that it anti-human and aberrant to want to have a social component to work, when "work" is an important part of life.
tomtheelder 5y ago
Want to layer onto this as someone with a similar, but slightly different perspective. I have a very active social life, and most of my leisure activities are group ones. But I also get great joy out of socializing by working. It's completely different from the other sorts of socializing I get, and neither is in any way a substitute for another. I also am just happier and more productive in a social workplace. I get that not everyone needs or wants that, but it's important to me, and I know for a fact that there are plenty out there like me.
- gilbetron 5y ago
  Pre-pandemic, I had a fairly active social life, and I want to get it back (life changes happened, too, where my wife and I used to play soccer and other sports, and had social outlets there, but we hit an age where that became too tough on us) - so I agree with what you are saying. The thing is, there are different types of people you end up socializing with. Outside of work, it tends to be more people like us, with the same interests, same kind of humor, etc. At work, I get to socialize with people that I don't normally get to socialize with - especially with remote work. On my team now are people from different religions, nationalities, backgrounds, etc. People I never would meet usually, or at best, rarely. They think differently than me, and that's really cool and interesting. But on the weekend I play RPGs with my ancient group of friends and we have a huge history and common interest and that's a lot of fun too.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

5150rc 5y ago

"Working is not anti-human, it is a fundamental component of humanity." Working is anti-human when that human has no choice but to work or else they become homeless and die in the street. For many, including myself, a job is a means to an end, not an extension of sociality. Apart of being human is understanding that other humans have a different perception of socialization and not being offended when they don't want to join you in small talk.

tomtheelder 5y ago
I think it's hard to classify that as anti-human when that has been the same for the entirety of our existence as a species. And to be honest on HN there's a lot more people getting offended by the idea that someone might enjoy small talk than vice versa.
gilbetron 5y ago
The entirety of our existence, and I mean all the way back when we were single-celled organisms, it has been work or die. It isn't until relatively recently that any other option generally represented itself. I'm not saying that people should be forced into smalltalk, and I'm not saying that people that "just want to work" have something wrong with them, I'm just pushing back on the notion that it anti-human and aberrant to want to have a social component to work, when "work" is an important part of life.

tomtheelder 5y ago

Want to layer onto this as someone with a similar, but slightly different perspective. I have a very active social life, and most of my leisure activities are group ones. But I also get great joy out of socializing by working. It's completely different from the other sorts of socializing I get, and neither is in any way a substitute for another. I also am just happier and more productive in a social workplace. I get that not everyone needs or wants that, but it's important to me, and I know for a fact that there are plenty out there like me.

gilbetron 5y ago
Pre-pandemic, I had a fairly active social life, and I want to get it back (life changes happened, too, where my wife and I used to play soccer and other sports, and had social outlets there, but we hit an age where that became too tough on us) - so I agree with what you are saying. The thing is, there are different types of people you end up socializing with. Outside of work, it tends to be more people like us, with the same interests, same kind of humor, etc. At work, I get to socialize with people that I don't normally get to socialize with - especially with remote work. On my team now are people from different religions, nationalities, backgrounds, etc. People I never would meet usually, or at best, rarely. They think differently than me, and that's really cool and interesting. But on the weekend I play RPGs with my ancient group of friends and we have a huge history and common interest and that's a lot of fun too.