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People make crazy claims like this all the time lol. They didn't surrender before the nukes or the US government would have been ravaged in the history books. I

People make crazy claims like this all the time lol. They didn't surrender before the nukes or the US government would have been ravaged in the history books. It would have taken a huge invasion force of the USA in order to take Japan and at least 10s of thousands dead on both sides, if not hundreds of thousands. The US would have bombed the entire country into rubble instead of two cities.

ncmncm 5y ago
US had already made Dresden-scale firestorms in, what, 25 cities IIRC. Military command didn't care. Just blockading the country would have forced a full surrender, soon, as lack of fuel would shut down industry. Ultimately, using the atomic bombs was an attention-getting device. The attention of Russia was as important as of the Japanese generals and emperor.
hedora 5y ago
The Japanese surrendered before the nukes. The US claimed the message was lost in transit. A decade or so ago, the relevant stuff was declassified. We got the message. The president decided to go forward with the nukes anyway. We had approximately 1.5 bombs, without more on the way, so it was a massive bluff. Knowing Japan would fold immediately after the bombings was a huge advantage. Edit: the communications I'm referring to were via closed diplomatic channels. The public surrender announcement and face saving came later.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  That is not true by any history I've read about it, and I've read a lot. It would been widely known. It's a conspiracy. Do you have proof of this or just some hearsay from "a high level source" ? Lots of people claim this stuff but never present solid evidence or documents that are verifiable.
  - hedora 5y ago
    During one of the recent declassifications, '05? '15?, reputable national US news networks said the new documents proved the US knew Japan was attempting to surrender before the bomb was dropped. This page is at an .edu, and is more ambiguous on the issue, saying it is an open question, and as of 2020 still being debated. It seems to link to databases of primary sources: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2020-08-04/atomic-bomb-end-world-war-ii https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2020-0...
- ncmncm 5y ago
  This very interesting! Pointing to a reliable source would be most welcome. The overwhelming majority of things that happened are not widely known. That is necessarily how reality is.

ncmncm 5y ago

US had already made Dresden-scale firestorms in, what, 25 cities IIRC. Military command didn't care. Just blockading the country would have forced a full surrender, soon, as lack of fuel would shut down industry. Ultimately, using the atomic bombs was an attention-getting device. The attention of Russia was as important as of the Japanese generals and emperor.

hedora 5y ago

The Japanese surrendered before the nukes. The US claimed the message was lost in transit. A decade or so ago, the relevant stuff was declassified. We got the message. The president decided to go forward with the nukes anyway. We had approximately 1.5 bombs, without more on the way, so it was a massive bluff. Knowing Japan would fold immediately after the bombings was a huge advantage. Edit: the communications I'm referring to were via closed diplomatic channels. The public surrender announcement and face saving came later.

stjohnswarts 5y ago
That is not true by any history I've read about it, and I've read a lot. It would been widely known. It's a conspiracy. Do you have proof of this or just some hearsay from "a high level source" ? Lots of people claim this stuff but never present solid evidence or documents that are verifiable.
- hedora 5y ago
  During one of the recent declassifications, '05? '15?, reputable national US news networks said the new documents proved the US knew Japan was attempting to surrender before the bomb was dropped. This page is at an .edu, and is more ambiguous on the issue, saying it is an open question, and as of 2020 still being debated. It seems to link to databases of primary sources: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2020-08-04/atomic-bomb-end-world-war-ii https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2020-0...
ncmncm 5y ago
This very interesting! Pointing to a reliable source would be most welcome. The overwhelming majority of things that happened are not widely known. That is necessarily how reality is.