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>This war started with the Russian invasion No. This war simmered, starting with 50 years of broken promises about the Eastern border of NATO. The opening sa

>This war started with the Russian invasion No. This war simmered, starting with 50 years of broken promises about the Eastern border of NATO. The opening salvo where it went hot was the coup in Kiev that deposed an elected leader. > and stops the moment they retreat from Ukrainian territory Nope. The Eastern Ukrainians, aka, The LPR and DPR, have been shelled by the Western Ukrainians for the last 6 years or so. They don't want to be controlled by Kiev anymore. Hence their full names. Donetsk People's Republic. Lugansk People's Republic. Am guessing they'd rather be with Russia, than the "countrymen" that have been shooting them, and bombing them. https://southfront.org/ukrainian-army-continues-massive-shelling-of-donetsk-and-luhansk/ https://southfront.org/ukrainian-army-continues-massive-shel...

meepmorp 5y ago
> Am guessing they'd rather be with Russia, than the "countrymen" that have been shooting them, and bombing them. I'm pretty sure most of them would prefer to be in Ukraine now. The Russians have been pressing men 18-64 into military service with shitty equipment, to serve as cannon fodder. The Russian's have done more to solidify Ukrainian national identity by invading their country than anything the Ukrainians could've done on their own.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> This war simmered, starting with 50 years of broken promises about the Eastern border of NATO. The mythical promises (which, even if the stories about them were completely true, were neither made to Russia nor made in a form that any future government beyond the one they were made to had any reasonable basis to rely on nor made in a form that could be reasonably held against any future leadership beyond the actual individuals that made them) happened in 1989-1990. So, even ignoring that the only entity that could arguably rely on them was gone within two years and the only people they could be held against were out of power within three, it's not possible for there to have been 50 years of them. Also, Russia was actively seeking eastward expansion of NATO (specifically, to include Russia) starting before celebrations of its declaration of independence from and leading role in destroying the USSR had quieted down in 1991, and for nearly a decade afterward. > The Eastern Ukrainians, aka, The LPR and DPR, have been shelled by the Western Ukrainians for the last 6 years or so That's not accurate. The Russia puppet pseudo-states, created through force of Russian sponsored Nazi mercenaries like Wagner and Nazi militias like Sparta (which individually is much larger than Azov that Russia likes to talk about so much, which was part of the response against their Russia-instigated aggression), have held, since 2014, a small fraction of their claimed territory in Eastern Ukraine and been shelling Eastern Ukrainians outside of the territory they hold and abusing those opposed to Russian aggression within it for the last six years. That's expanded, as well as the scale of abuse, with Russia’s open direct invasion recently.
- OrvalWintermute 5y ago
  >The Russia puppet pseudo-states, created through force of Russian sponsored Nazi mercenaries like Wagner and Nazi militias like Sparta (which individually is much larger than Azov that Russia likes to talk about so much, which was part of the response against their Russia-instigated aggression) Please provide some evidence that Wagner, the Russian military company similar to Blackwater, is a group of Nazis. As the documentary evidence for Right Sektor and the Azov Battalions being Nazi/Fascistic affiliated is already overwhelming, and far predates the recent invasion of Russian Forces, as documented by Vice News, and several other western media sources. Would like to see some evidence of the same about Sparta too, if such a thing exists.

meepmorp 5y ago

> Am guessing they'd rather be with Russia, than the "countrymen" that have been shooting them, and bombing them. I'm pretty sure most of them would prefer to be in Ukraine now. The Russians have been pressing men 18-64 into military service with shitty equipment, to serve as cannon fodder. The Russian's have done more to solidify Ukrainian national identity by invading their country than anything the Ukrainians could've done on their own.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> This war simmered, starting with 50 years of broken promises about the Eastern border of NATO. The mythical promises (which, even if the stories about them were completely true, were neither made to Russia nor made in a form that any future government beyond the one they were made to had any reasonable basis to rely on nor made in a form that could be reasonably held against any future leadership beyond the actual individuals that made them) happened in 1989-1990. So, even ignoring that the only entity that could arguably rely on them was gone within two years and the only people they could be held against were out of power within three, it's not possible for there to have been 50 years of them. Also, Russia was actively seeking eastward expansion of NATO (specifically, to include Russia) starting before celebrations of its declaration of independence from and leading role in destroying the USSR had quieted down in 1991, and for nearly a decade afterward. > The Eastern Ukrainians, aka, The LPR and DPR, have been shelled by the Western Ukrainians for the last 6 years or so That's not accurate. The Russia puppet pseudo-states, created through force of Russian sponsored Nazi mercenaries like Wagner and Nazi militias like Sparta (which individually is much larger than Azov that Russia likes to talk about so much, which was part of the response against their Russia-instigated aggression), have held, since 2014, a small fraction of their claimed territory in Eastern Ukraine and been shelling Eastern Ukrainians outside of the territory they hold and abusing those opposed to Russian aggression within it for the last six years. That's expanded, as well as the scale of abuse, with Russia’s open direct invasion recently.

OrvalWintermute 5y ago
>The Russia puppet pseudo-states, created through force of Russian sponsored Nazi mercenaries like Wagner and Nazi militias like Sparta (which individually is much larger than Azov that Russia likes to talk about so much, which was part of the response against their Russia-instigated aggression) Please provide some evidence that Wagner, the Russian military company similar to Blackwater, is a group of Nazis. As the documentary evidence for Right Sektor and the Azov Battalions being Nazi/Fascistic affiliated is already overwhelming, and far predates the recent invasion of Russian Forces, as documented by Vice News, and several other western media sources. Would like to see some evidence of the same about Sparta too, if such a thing exists.