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Even startups benefit from job titles and hierarchy. Even startup employees benefit from a visible promotion path. Remember, they had hundreds of employees. No

Even startups benefit from job titles and hierarchy. Even startup employees benefit from a visible promotion path. Remember, they had hundreds of employees. Not just a couple people in a small office somewhere. Most likely, the levels corresponded to pay bands and helped determine where people fit into the seniority hierarchy (such as determining who receives sensitive daily information updates)

sergiotapia 5y ago
Levels before you even have product market fit is a joke.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
alar44 5y ago
Yeah that’s all fine and good but 6 levels is ridiculous for a new startup. My company has been around for 30 years, doing $75 million in sales this year, has 300 employees and we now have 4 levels, one more than last year, and even that feels artificial.
encoderer 5y ago
You are 100% right — for late stage startups where you would normally see 500 people. At the Fast stage, the only viable promotion path is ship work that impacts the business or close deals that bring in revenue. The promotion levels game is something you play in larger organizations to engineer a rat race for people because it turns out they really like that. But no, a startup does not benefit from hierarchy quite the opposite in fact. That crap is all overhead it’s necessary as you grow but actually detrimental to your success.
- bps4484 5y ago
  they were a company of nearly 500 people. they had 150 engineers. At that stage people who don't have levels will feel like they have no direction.
  - encoderer 5y ago
    This is just such a big company mentality. Yes, you need like Engineer and Senior Engineer and then when you have some rock stars who actually move the business forward they are your principles and/or future directors. To try to build this all up ahead of time, show me where it's ever worked? When Google was that size they were playing with having no managers at all.
    - subroutine 5y ago
      If you're only interested in sniping FAANG talent, arbitrary levels provide a familiar comfort, and an opportunity to offer a level up immediately upon joining. "You're level L4 at Google, but we'll bring you in at L14". >> * Fast hired engineers, engineering managers, product managers, and executives directly from Big Tech. Many of the software engineers joined from Meta, Google, Uber, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, and other well-known companies. Many joining had competing offers both from Big Tech and other high-growth startups.
  - kortilla 5y ago
    Oh shit, there is no number in front of my name! What will I do with my life? The incredible vanity of it all.

sergiotapia 5y ago

Levels before you even have product market fit is a joke.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

alar44 5y ago

Yeah that’s all fine and good but 6 levels is ridiculous for a new startup. My company has been around for 30 years, doing $75 million in sales this year, has 300 employees and we now have 4 levels, one more than last year, and even that feels artificial.

encoderer 5y ago

You are 100% right — for late stage startups where you would normally see 500 people. At the Fast stage, the only viable promotion path is ship work that impacts the business or close deals that bring in revenue. The promotion levels game is something you play in larger organizations to engineer a rat race for people because it turns out they really like that. But no, a startup does not benefit from hierarchy quite the opposite in fact. That crap is all overhead it’s necessary as you grow but actually detrimental to your success.

bps4484 5y ago
they were a company of nearly 500 people. they had 150 engineers. At that stage people who don't have levels will feel like they have no direction.
- encoderer 5y ago
  This is just such a big company mentality. Yes, you need like Engineer and Senior Engineer and then when you have some rock stars who actually move the business forward they are your principles and/or future directors. To try to build this all up ahead of time, show me where it's ever worked? When Google was that size they were playing with having no managers at all.
  - subroutine 5y ago
    If you're only interested in sniping FAANG talent, arbitrary levels provide a familiar comfort, and an opportunity to offer a level up immediately upon joining. "You're level L4 at Google, but we'll bring you in at L14". >> * Fast hired engineers, engineering managers, product managers, and executives directly from Big Tech. Many of the software engineers joined from Meta, Google, Uber, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, and other well-known companies. Many joining had competing offers both from Big Tech and other high-growth startups.
- kortilla 5y ago
  Oh shit, there is no number in front of my name! What will I do with my life? The incredible vanity of it all.