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So fix the education system. That would make a real difference to millions. Restricting court appointments to individuals of a particular color is tokenism that

by Veen 5y ago

So fix the education system. That would make a real difference to millions. Restricting court appointments to individuals of a particular color is tokenism that helps no one except the person who gets appointed. At the very least appoint them without announcing in advance that you're determined to appoint a black person. How shitty would you feel if you've worked your whole life at a very high level, and then the president announces that you're chosen not because you're the best of the candidates, but because you're a black candidate.

deleted 5y ago
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hnaccount141 5y ago
> How shitty would you feel if you've worked your whole life at a very high level, and then the president announces that you're chosen not because you're the best of the candidates, but because you're a black candidate. This is an interesting point. One of the things that's been pointed out to me by women in my life is the psychological toll of repeatedly being in situations where you feel like you've been discriminated against but there's just enough ambiguity that you're not comfortable speaking up about it. E.g. being passed up for promotion in favor of someone who isn't blatantly less qualified, but is less qualified nonetheless, or being unsure if someone speaks to everyone in a condescending tone or just to women. The case of the justice seems like the inverse of that. Do publicly advertised affirmative action or DEI programs have the side effect of causing qualified people to second guess whether their success was earned? I do think there's a lot of value in such programs (that most likely outweighs the negatives, to the extent that they even exist), but I haven't heard anyone talking about whether such effects exist and if so how to handle them. Maybe it's not a factor at all, I certainly am not in a position to say.
- throw7 5y ago
  > Do publicly advertised affirmative action or DEI programs have the side effect of causing qualified people to second guess whether their success was earned? If you have status, you don't mind being known as a recipient of "affirmative action" i.e. "I picked you for supreme court justice cause your black". If you don't have status, then you don't want it to be known you're a recipient of aa i.e. you won't see the POTUS go around to ivy-leagues and point out all the affirmative action students saying, "It's great all these students got into harvard because they're black."
watwut 5y ago
I think that she is pretty aware of reality on which she is among best candidates. And the group of best candidates is larger then a single one person. Yet also, precious candidates were less qualified but highly political, so it is not like anyone would think the selection is all about qualification.
klyrs 5y ago
> So fix the education system. And, what, wait 50 more years before the education system, fixed by your magic wand, produces a judge that has never been done any favors, implicit or explicit, according to their race and gender?

by Veen 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

hnaccount141 5y ago

> How shitty would you feel if you've worked your whole life at a very high level, and then the president announces that you're chosen not because you're the best of the candidates, but because you're a black candidate. This is an interesting point. One of the things that's been pointed out to me by women in my life is the psychological toll of repeatedly being in situations where you feel like you've been discriminated against but there's just enough ambiguity that you're not comfortable speaking up about it. E.g. being passed up for promotion in favor of someone who isn't blatantly less qualified, but is less qualified nonetheless, or being unsure if someone speaks to everyone in a condescending tone or just to women. The case of the justice seems like the inverse of that. Do publicly advertised affirmative action or DEI programs have the side effect of causing qualified people to second guess whether their success was earned? I do think there's a lot of value in such programs (that most likely outweighs the negatives, to the extent that they even exist), but I haven't heard anyone talking about whether such effects exist and if so how to handle them. Maybe it's not a factor at all, I certainly am not in a position to say.

throw7 5y ago
> Do publicly advertised affirmative action or DEI programs have the side effect of causing qualified people to second guess whether their success was earned? If you have status, you don't mind being known as a recipient of "affirmative action" i.e. "I picked you for supreme court justice cause your black". If you don't have status, then you don't want it to be known you're a recipient of aa i.e. you won't see the POTUS go around to ivy-leagues and point out all the affirmative action students saying, "It's great all these students got into harvard because they're black."

watwut 5y ago

I think that she is pretty aware of reality on which she is among best candidates. And the group of best candidates is larger then a single one person. Yet also, precious candidates were less qualified but highly political, so it is not like anyone would think the selection is all about qualification.

klyrs 5y ago

> So fix the education system. And, what, wait 50 more years before the education system, fixed by your magic wand, produces a judge that has never been done any favors, implicit or explicit, according to their race and gender?