4 ms·

> We get job candidates with high competing offers for companies I know to be rotten inside, I fell for this trick once when I was younger, but never again. A

> We get job candidates with high competing offers for companies I know to be rotten inside, I fell for this trick once when I was younger, but never again. As it turns out, when companies are bleeding talent and struggling to hire they suddenly find ways to pay well above market rate. You can have a fancy title, too! We had a competitor do something similar at a prior company. I would tell candidates that we can't match their compensation numbers but to come back if things don't work out at the other company. I'd often get a message about 3-4 months later asking if the job was still available

meetups323 5y ago
May help explain some Meta offers I've seen... 2 years out of college? Sure, come as a Senior! That's not enough? Principal it is!
- naiwenwt 5y ago
  The problem is sometimes this is done for legitimate reasons and genuinely does lead to stronger outcomes for both employers and employees. It's hard to tell the difference between "stop the bleeding" title/pay inflation and "aggressively competing for talent" inflation.
  - meetups323 5y ago
    Differentiator is what other companies will pay. If GAM all offer X, F offers 3X, and GAM refuse to budge on their X... either F knows some deep dark secrets about your capabilities which no one else can appreciate, or they're bleeding talent.
    - frankchn 5y ago
      It is usually not quite that drastic. More often it is like GAM offer X, F offers 1.2X.
  - lmeyerov 5y ago
    Sort of. A good question is what is the revenue per employee Meta is ~$2M/employee. Probably more like $1M once contractors are accounted for? But for a good person, even if the rest of the company has random issues, they can carve out a win. Fast was like $1K/employee Consider what that's like for some hypothetical B2B startup BlitzScaler Inc. They're betting on 3x+ growth year-over-year for next 2+ years, 2-3 year sales payback periods, etc, and is probably closer to Fast levels of revenue per employee than Meta's. But hitting $500K is hard, $2M is hard again in different ways, then again to $10M, and again to $20M+ (and increasing range depending if many sales people inflating it). That matters because many aren't there, even unicorns (!). That means, like Uber, they're burning increasing piles of money, except unlike Uber, the revenue is unlikely to be keeping pace. Fundraising buys team, and an artificial sense of fit+growth (kool-aid-drinking team + forced sales that tap out + churn.) A cockroach team is closer to Amazon style: reinvest ~100% in growth, but don't gamble your employee's stock options.
  - nomel 5y ago
    > this is done for legitimate reasons What could be a legitimate reason for giving silly titles? If it were a startup, it would be a huge red flag for an auditor.
    - presentation 5y ago
      A title is free to give and can motivate people who want them.
      - mwcampbell 5y ago
        Mightn't titles motivate the wrong kind of people?
- hackernewds 5y ago
  They seems to be the narrative I'm seeing for most of matters hiring. they're hiring very, very very aggressively
- pedrosorio 5y ago
  > Meta > Sure, come as a Senior! That's not enough? Principal it is! Do you mean staff (E6, the level above Senior)? Also, no one is getting E6 offers 2 years out of college.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - meetups323 5y ago
    Not sure the specific title, just whatever was after senior. And I suppose it's more like 3 years at this point. Class of 2019.
    - pedrosorio 5y ago
      So, over $500k per year? Not a bad deal for class of 2019
      - meetups323 5y ago
        Yep, not bad. But talking in salaries hides the most important number: how many hours are you expected to work for that? IME, F are the only ones to whip out their laptop at a house party or bar at 10PM on a Friday night because they felt an insatiable to work on some feature request; GMA may do the same when on-call, but I've never seen it otherwise. I'm personally going the other route: Class of 2019, secured a decently sized FAANG bag (barely worked the whole time while doing it), and now I'm transitioning to a position with even fewer hours of commitment required but also lower salary. Going to focus on things I've come to find more important than money and code.
nomel 5y ago
> find ways to pay well above market rate. You can have a fancy title, too! On my way out of the first startup I worked for, there was an offer to double my pay! Nope!

meetups323 5y ago

May help explain some Meta offers I've seen... 2 years out of college? Sure, come as a Senior! That's not enough? Principal it is!

naiwenwt 5y ago
The problem is sometimes this is done for legitimate reasons and genuinely does lead to stronger outcomes for both employers and employees. It's hard to tell the difference between "stop the bleeding" title/pay inflation and "aggressively competing for talent" inflation.
- meetups323 5y ago
  Differentiator is what other companies will pay. If GAM all offer X, F offers 3X, and GAM refuse to budge on their X... either F knows some deep dark secrets about your capabilities which no one else can appreciate, or they're bleeding talent.
  - frankchn 5y ago
    It is usually not quite that drastic. More often it is like GAM offer X, F offers 1.2X.
- lmeyerov 5y ago
  Sort of. A good question is what is the revenue per employee Meta is ~$2M/employee. Probably more like $1M once contractors are accounted for? But for a good person, even if the rest of the company has random issues, they can carve out a win. Fast was like $1K/employee Consider what that's like for some hypothetical B2B startup BlitzScaler Inc. They're betting on 3x+ growth year-over-year for next 2+ years, 2-3 year sales payback periods, etc, and is probably closer to Fast levels of revenue per employee than Meta's. But hitting $500K is hard, $2M is hard again in different ways, then again to $10M, and again to $20M+ (and increasing range depending if many sales people inflating it). That matters because many aren't there, even unicorns (!). That means, like Uber, they're burning increasing piles of money, except unlike Uber, the revenue is unlikely to be keeping pace. Fundraising buys team, and an artificial sense of fit+growth (kool-aid-drinking team + forced sales that tap out + churn.) A cockroach team is closer to Amazon style: reinvest ~100% in growth, but don't gamble your employee's stock options.
- nomel 5y ago
  > this is done for legitimate reasons What could be a legitimate reason for giving silly titles? If it were a startup, it would be a huge red flag for an auditor.
  - presentation 5y ago
    A title is free to give and can motivate people who want them.
    - mwcampbell 5y ago
      Mightn't titles motivate the wrong kind of people?
hackernewds 5y ago
They seems to be the narrative I'm seeing for most of matters hiring. they're hiring very, very very aggressively
pedrosorio 5y ago
> Meta > Sure, come as a Senior! That's not enough? Principal it is! Do you mean staff (E6, the level above Senior)? Also, no one is getting E6 offers 2 years out of college.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- meetups323 5y ago
  Not sure the specific title, just whatever was after senior. And I suppose it's more like 3 years at this point. Class of 2019.
  - pedrosorio 5y ago
    So, over $500k per year? Not a bad deal for class of 2019
    - meetups323 5y ago
      Yep, not bad. But talking in salaries hides the most important number: how many hours are you expected to work for that? IME, F are the only ones to whip out their laptop at a house party or bar at 10PM on a Friday night because they felt an insatiable to work on some feature request; GMA may do the same when on-call, but I've never seen it otherwise. I'm personally going the other route: Class of 2019, secured a decently sized FAANG bag (barely worked the whole time while doing it), and now I'm transitioning to a position with even fewer hours of commitment required but also lower salary. Going to focus on things I've come to find more important than money and code.

nomel 5y ago

> find ways to pay well above market rate. You can have a fancy title, too! On my way out of the first startup I worked for, there was an offer to double my pay! Nope!