7 ms·

As an electrical engineer I am curious how russians get their hands on the mil spec Western electronic components. I mean even in Western Europe I must fill few

by lnsru 5y ago

As an electrical engineer I am curious how russians get their hands on the mil spec Western electronic components. I mean even in Western Europe I must fill few forms to obtain potentially dual use components. Mil spec Xilinx FPGAs or SiGe transistors aren’t available in every grocery store.

notch656a 5y ago
Take a look how easily highly illegal drugs are smuggled in large quantity, and then ponder how easy it is for civilians to acquire Xilinx FPGAs in the West regardless of forms. Then ponder that .ru may be using industrial spec instead of mil spec : life-critical isn't so important to russia.
wikidani 5y ago
They did have some degree of connection with France up until 2014 so maybe they might have gotten some from there. Also, sanction busting is a thing and the FSB probably has some way to get some components in a shady manner
PaulHoule 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbrus_(computer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbrus_(computer)
- lnsru 5y ago
  Probably possible to order one of these using automotive process in some foundry in Asia. Nobody will ask too much and it would be enough power for defense applications.
- PeterisP 5y ago
  Elbrus chips were manufactured in Taiwan TSMC before the war and it has been stopped now due to the war, Russia has no domestic capability to manufacture them.
  - inkyoto 5y ago
    > Russia has no domestic capability to manufacture them. They do and have had it since 1960's, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikron_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikron_Group The process is not as advanced as the TSMC's one, but they seem to have progressed (or have been progressing?) to 28-45 nm technological process in 2018.
newsclues 5y ago
China? I think China makes Russian AD built under license, so from the local Chinese suppliers.
rasz 5y ago
You can buy it over the counter at the SEG.
jleahy 5y ago
These are reflectarray radars, not AESA. No crazy specialist components are really required, just a lot of PIN diodes. I'm sure those can be made in Russia.
- nimbius 5y ago
  not sure where the proclivity to underestimate Russian military technology comes from. it certainly was a sterling hallmark of US leadership at the time of the cold war. Russia has been making in-house AESA for a decade. they started with APAR radar in 1963, just a few years off from the US. http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Zhuk-AE-Analysis.html http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Zhuk-AE-Analysis.html they also sell the only radar capable of (on the open market) detecting hypersonics, the 59Н6-ТЕ mobile radar.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    How useful is it to be able to detect a hypersonic missile?
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      Maybe you get a chance to run outside before it hits? But if you can get something lofted to get in its way before it hits you, it is unlikely to survive that.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        At a mile a second I think the chances of that are somewhat limited unless you already happen to be in the flight path.
        ncmncm 5y ago
        If it's coming toward you, just popping up between you and it is enough. It's not like it can steer around.
throwaway4good 5y ago
Do they use mil spec Western electronic components? I thought they made their own.
- yakak 5y ago
  > I thought they made their own. I saw some articles implying that they thought so too but are actually using a lot more Chinese components even as substitutes for military grade components. Given that the portion of US companies make a military and commercial grade component with only thermal differences, I would wonder if they aren't getting a lot of commercial grade versions of US designs from China. It would be interesting if someone goes through their wreckage strewn about and starts to catalog the finer details of some of the small components.
frogger8 5y ago
Russia has a network to get around this. Sort of like the show the Americans but not as sexy and less photogenic players.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Why wouldn't they be able to get such components from China?

by lnsru 5y ago

notch656a 5y ago

Take a look how easily highly illegal drugs are smuggled in large quantity, and then ponder how easy it is for civilians to acquire Xilinx FPGAs in the West regardless of forms. Then ponder that .ru may be using industrial spec instead of mil spec : life-critical isn't so important to russia.

wikidani 5y ago

They did have some degree of connection with France up until 2014 so maybe they might have gotten some from there. Also, sanction busting is a thing and the FSB probably has some way to get some components in a shady manner

PaulHoule 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbrus_(computer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbrus_(computer)

lnsru 5y ago
Probably possible to order one of these using automotive process in some foundry in Asia. Nobody will ask too much and it would be enough power for defense applications.
PeterisP 5y ago
Elbrus chips were manufactured in Taiwan TSMC before the war and it has been stopped now due to the war, Russia has no domestic capability to manufacture them.
- inkyoto 5y ago
  > Russia has no domestic capability to manufacture them. They do and have had it since 1960's, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikron_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikron_Group The process is not as advanced as the TSMC's one, but they seem to have progressed (or have been progressing?) to 28-45 nm technological process in 2018.

newsclues 5y ago

China? I think China makes Russian AD built under license, so from the local Chinese suppliers.

rasz 5y ago

You can buy it over the counter at the SEG.

jleahy 5y ago

These are reflectarray radars, not AESA. No crazy specialist components are really required, just a lot of PIN diodes. I'm sure those can be made in Russia.

nimbius 5y ago
not sure where the proclivity to underestimate Russian military technology comes from. it certainly was a sterling hallmark of US leadership at the time of the cold war. Russia has been making in-house AESA for a decade. they started with APAR radar in 1963, just a few years off from the US. http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Zhuk-AE-Analysis.html http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Zhuk-AE-Analysis.html they also sell the only radar capable of (on the open market) detecting hypersonics, the 59Н6-ТЕ mobile radar.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  How useful is it to be able to detect a hypersonic missile?
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    Maybe you get a chance to run outside before it hits? But if you can get something lofted to get in its way before it hits you, it is unlikely to survive that.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      At a mile a second I think the chances of that are somewhat limited unless you already happen to be in the flight path.
      - ncmncm 5y ago
        If it's coming toward you, just popping up between you and it is enough. It's not like it can steer around.

throwaway4good 5y ago

Do they use mil spec Western electronic components? I thought they made their own.

yakak 5y ago
> I thought they made their own. I saw some articles implying that they thought so too but are actually using a lot more Chinese components even as substitutes for military grade components. Given that the portion of US companies make a military and commercial grade component with only thermal differences, I would wonder if they aren't getting a lot of commercial grade versions of US designs from China. It would be interesting if someone goes through their wreckage strewn about and starts to catalog the finer details of some of the small components.

frogger8 5y ago

Russia has a network to get around this. Sort of like the show the Americans but not as sexy and less photogenic players.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

Why wouldn't they be able to get such components from China?