4 ms·

That doesn't sound very communist to me. Moreover, while the British certainly prefer their healthcare system to the American system (and I probably agree), I'v

That doesn't sound very communist to me. Moreover, while the British certainly prefer their healthcare system to the American system (and I probably agree), I've never heard them describe their system as efficient (on the contrary, they seem to talk about it as a money pit).

jfk13 5y ago
The amazing thing is that despite being a money pit, it still manages to deliver better overall value than the US "system".
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  It's not really amazing, it's just that not everything is in reference to the US system. When Brits comment about their system being a money pit, they aren't always thinking about the US system as their frame of reference. This seems to be a stumbling block for us Americans, or at least for Americans who are passionate about healthcare reform.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
Experts regularly rate it as one of the most efficient health systems, so whoever you're talking to is ill informed. Probably listened to too much propaganda from people who want to adopt the widely hated and less efficient American system instead.
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  Hm, as a German, I shudder at the thought of potentially being dependant on a system that regularly breaks down during standard influenza waves in the winter [1] and that has fixed-amount budgets for individual sickness [2], so your tooth better splits during the first few months... Is the NHS better than the US system? Maybe. But it is by far inferior to the French, the Spanish or the German healthcare systems. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/24/winter-flu-crisis-hospitals-overstretched https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/24/winter-flu-c... [2] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dentists-run-out-of-cash-for-nhs-patients-vctcl7c8fgn https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dentists-run-out-of-cash-...
  - cinntaile 5y ago
    You're comparing apples to oranges by using a different metric than the parent is using.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    I was talking specifically about efficiency: > Despite regular criticism, the National Health Service (NHS) is effective when comparing the government spend versus the outcomes of human development and lifespan. While critics point to Switzerland achieving the lowest death rates in Europe, or Germany having a consistently quality health care system, they don’t compare these to the level of expenditure. > In fact, the UK has a higher life expectancy than Germany, with lower health care funding than in other large economies. The Swiss spend $3,079 more on health care per person than the UK, while Germany spends $1,993 more per person than the UK. Critics can’t ignore these massive differences in expenditure when debating the outcomes that the NHS provides. If the UK matched Swiss expenditure per person, an additional $206 billion would be spent on health care annually.
    - pigeonhole123 5y ago
      The correlation between the lifespan of a whole population and the dollar amounts spent by the government (which BTW probably shouldn't be compared across countries with different costs of living), is presumably pretty confounded.
      - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
        I'm not trying to build this argument from scratch, I'm just telling people who get their info from other sources that the commonly accepted opinion of the experts in this field is that the NHS is an efficient health service. If you don't accept that then feel free to write a letter to their academic journals and correct their work. I’m sure they’ll be really interested in your uninformed knee-jerk reactions to things that your gut doesn't like the sound of.
    - DocTomoe 5y ago
      Point is: as a patient, I don't care much about "bang for the bucks", I care about whether or not I get the medical attention I need when I need it. > In fact, the UK has a higher life expectancy than Germany Life expectancy seems to be very similar, tbh [1]. The metric "money per patient vs. like expectancy" also does not include differences in cost of living (which is higher in Germany and Switzerland) and demographic differences (on average, the UK is younger than Germany and Switzerland [2]) [1] https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=life+expectancy+uk+vs+germany+vs+switzerland https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=life+expectancy+uk+vs+g... [2] https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=median+age+uk+vs+germany+vs+switzerland https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=median+age+uk+vs+german...
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  > Experts regularly rate it as one of the most efficient health systems, so whoever you're talking to is ill informed. Maybe. > Probably listened to too much propaganda from people who want to adopt the widely hated and less efficient American system instead. Brits don't have much propaganda for the American system, and I doubt the British psyche frames every aspect of British life in reference to American life. That said, your zeal for the UK system and passionate distain for the American system are duly noted.
  - pydry 5y ago
    >Brits don't have much propaganda for the American system, and I doubt the British psyche frames every aspect of British life in reference to American life. The rest of the world actually pays more attention to america than america does to it. A lot of brits have family and friends in america. Theyre at least dimly aware of the insane medical bills and bankruptcies.

jfk13 5y ago

The amazing thing is that despite being a money pit, it still manages to deliver better overall value than the US "system".

throwaway894345 5y ago
It's not really amazing, it's just that not everything is in reference to the US system. When Brits comment about their system being a money pit, they aren't always thinking about the US system as their frame of reference. This seems to be a stumbling block for us Americans, or at least for Americans who are passionate about healthcare reform.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

Experts regularly rate it as one of the most efficient health systems, so whoever you're talking to is ill informed. Probably listened to too much propaganda from people who want to adopt the widely hated and less efficient American system instead.

DocTomoe 5y ago
Hm, as a German, I shudder at the thought of potentially being dependant on a system that regularly breaks down during standard influenza waves in the winter [1] and that has fixed-amount budgets for individual sickness [2], so your tooth better splits during the first few months... Is the NHS better than the US system? Maybe. But it is by far inferior to the French, the Spanish or the German healthcare systems. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/24/winter-flu-crisis-hospitals-overstretched https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/24/winter-flu-c... [2] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dentists-run-out-of-cash-for-nhs-patients-vctcl7c8fgn https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dentists-run-out-of-cash-...
- cinntaile 5y ago
  You're comparing apples to oranges by using a different metric than the parent is using.
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  I was talking specifically about efficiency: > Despite regular criticism, the National Health Service (NHS) is effective when comparing the government spend versus the outcomes of human development and lifespan. While critics point to Switzerland achieving the lowest death rates in Europe, or Germany having a consistently quality health care system, they don’t compare these to the level of expenditure. > In fact, the UK has a higher life expectancy than Germany, with lower health care funding than in other large economies. The Swiss spend $3,079 more on health care per person than the UK, while Germany spends $1,993 more per person than the UK. Critics can’t ignore these massive differences in expenditure when debating the outcomes that the NHS provides. If the UK matched Swiss expenditure per person, an additional $206 billion would be spent on health care annually.
  - pigeonhole123 5y ago
    The correlation between the lifespan of a whole population and the dollar amounts spent by the government (which BTW probably shouldn't be compared across countries with different costs of living), is presumably pretty confounded.
    - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
      I'm not trying to build this argument from scratch, I'm just telling people who get their info from other sources that the commonly accepted opinion of the experts in this field is that the NHS is an efficient health service. If you don't accept that then feel free to write a letter to their academic journals and correct their work. I’m sure they’ll be really interested in your uninformed knee-jerk reactions to things that your gut doesn't like the sound of.
  - DocTomoe 5y ago
    Point is: as a patient, I don't care much about "bang for the bucks", I care about whether or not I get the medical attention I need when I need it. > In fact, the UK has a higher life expectancy than Germany Life expectancy seems to be very similar, tbh [1]. The metric "money per patient vs. like expectancy" also does not include differences in cost of living (which is higher in Germany and Switzerland) and demographic differences (on average, the UK is younger than Germany and Switzerland [2]) [1] https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=life+expectancy+uk+vs+germany+vs+switzerland https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=life+expectancy+uk+vs+g... [2] https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=median+age+uk+vs+germany+vs+switzerland https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=median+age+uk+vs+german...
throwaway894345 5y ago
> Experts regularly rate it as one of the most efficient health systems, so whoever you're talking to is ill informed. Maybe. > Probably listened to too much propaganda from people who want to adopt the widely hated and less efficient American system instead. Brits don't have much propaganda for the American system, and I doubt the British psyche frames every aspect of British life in reference to American life. That said, your zeal for the UK system and passionate distain for the American system are duly noted.
- pydry 5y ago
  >Brits don't have much propaganda for the American system, and I doubt the British psyche frames every aspect of British life in reference to American life. The rest of the world actually pays more attention to america than america does to it. A lot of brits have family and friends in america. Theyre at least dimly aware of the insane medical bills and bankruptcies.