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You know why the Mexico situation is inadequate? Because the border with the USA is completely different than it is in Europe. In Europe most countries are in N

You know why the Mexico situation is inadequate? Because the border with the USA is completely different than it is in Europe. In Europe most countries are in NATO, and some of these countries have been bordering with Russia for several decades now. No aggression on the part of any Eropean state towards Russia happened. In the meantime, Russia attacked Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine. These states didn't attack Russia - Russia was the aggressor in each case. Of course Chechnya is a vassal of Russia now, as are Abkhazia and South Ossetia. NATO didn't attack anybody. As for the core of your questions, we don't have to speculate because we already know what would happen if someone decided to place nuclear rocket launchers close to American border - we've seen it already during the Cuban crisis. Both countries agreed that land-based nuclear missiles aiming at Russia in Europe will be placed only in France and the UK, and not in Germany, for example, whereas those aiming at Western Europe will be placed in Kaliningrad Special Region. Recently, Putin decided he will move some warheads also to Belarus.

yucky 5y ago
>Both countries agreed that land-based nuclear missiles aiming at Russia in Europe will be placed only in France and the UK, and not in Germany, for example They also both agreed Ukraine would never try to join NATO, and yet...
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  There is no "yet". NATO consistently refused repeated requests of Ukraine to join. Even the Ukrainians themselves weren't too much interested before Putin started the war in 2014 (<30% in 2012, almost 70% five years later). The situation of Ukrainians is simply tragic, they never had any real choice. They could either become Putin's slaves or face a bloody war. They made their choice hoping he would not attack but were mistaken, and now they have to pay. After the war is over the whole Europe will start rebuilding their country, but nobody will revive the ones killed by Putin's army.
  - yucky 5y ago
    >Even the Ukrainians themselves weren't too much interested before Putin started the war in 2014 Why do you think Putin invaded in 2014? Remember they had a coup in Ukraine, and the new regime was very anti-Russia. Immediately after the 2014 coup the new US-approved government changed the Constitution to the 2004 version which allowed for a vote to join NATO[1]. So then Russia invaded Crimea as a result, since by NATO rule, a country not in control of its borders would not be eligible to join NATO. Then in December 2014 Ukraine voted to abandon neutrality and begin the process of getting into NATO anyway.[2] Trump's presidency definitely put a pause on this plan, which is why there were no/limited hostilities in those 4 years. But now that Biden is back on top, Ukraine has been pushing towards NATO again. And that isn't to excuse Russia, but we have to be honest about what these triggers are. This isn't happening in a vacuum. [1] https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/191727.html https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/191727.html [2] https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrali...
    - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
      > Why do you think Putin invaded in 2014? Because I don't know a single person who believes otherwise. And I doubt he would dare to start the war in Donbas back then if he hadn't been emboldened by his success in Crimea. I talked to my Crimean friends back then, some of them had high hopes related to what would happen if Crimea became Russian. Somehow, none of these hopes materialized. No big stream of rich Russians coming and leaving big stack of rubles there - maybe even less after the annexation. As for Donbas, I had some Russian friends there; most left in 2014 - and obviously were very pro-Russian back then. They were very bitter about the Ukrainian government and hoped - just like Crimeans - that Putin will magically make everything right, that Kharkiv will become second Saint Petersburg. They soon realized the folks Putin sent were the worst thugs, the scum of the earth. To quote one of my friends, "For these people to kill a man was like spitting". Still, many people had a good opinion of Putin, putting all blame on the Ukrainian government. That is, until the shelling of Kharkiv begun. Then they realized the truth, but it was too late. It is still mind-boggling to me. Why did he decide to start killing his own people? There was so much good will for him in this city, there is none left. Unbelievable. BTW the aspirations of Ukraine you mention is just one part of the story; Ukraine doesn't decide whether they can join NATO - member states of NATO do. So far, everybody was against, including the USA, France, and Germany. Maybe the war changes it, but I doubt it.

yucky 5y ago

>Both countries agreed that land-based nuclear missiles aiming at Russia in Europe will be placed only in France and the UK, and not in Germany, for example They also both agreed Ukraine would never try to join NATO, and yet...

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
There is no "yet". NATO consistently refused repeated requests of Ukraine to join. Even the Ukrainians themselves weren't too much interested before Putin started the war in 2014 (<30% in 2012, almost 70% five years later). The situation of Ukrainians is simply tragic, they never had any real choice. They could either become Putin's slaves or face a bloody war. They made their choice hoping he would not attack but were mistaken, and now they have to pay. After the war is over the whole Europe will start rebuilding their country, but nobody will revive the ones killed by Putin's army.
- yucky 5y ago
  >Even the Ukrainians themselves weren't too much interested before Putin started the war in 2014 Why do you think Putin invaded in 2014? Remember they had a coup in Ukraine, and the new regime was very anti-Russia. Immediately after the 2014 coup the new US-approved government changed the Constitution to the 2004 version which allowed for a vote to join NATO[1]. So then Russia invaded Crimea as a result, since by NATO rule, a country not in control of its borders would not be eligible to join NATO. Then in December 2014 Ukraine voted to abandon neutrality and begin the process of getting into NATO anyway.[2] Trump's presidency definitely put a pause on this plan, which is why there were no/limited hostilities in those 4 years. But now that Biden is back on top, Ukraine has been pushing towards NATO again. And that isn't to excuse Russia, but we have to be honest about what these triggers are. This isn't happening in a vacuum. [1] https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/191727.html https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/191727.html [2] https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrali...
  - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
    > Why do you think Putin invaded in 2014? Because I don't know a single person who believes otherwise. And I doubt he would dare to start the war in Donbas back then if he hadn't been emboldened by his success in Crimea. I talked to my Crimean friends back then, some of them had high hopes related to what would happen if Crimea became Russian. Somehow, none of these hopes materialized. No big stream of rich Russians coming and leaving big stack of rubles there - maybe even less after the annexation. As for Donbas, I had some Russian friends there; most left in 2014 - and obviously were very pro-Russian back then. They were very bitter about the Ukrainian government and hoped - just like Crimeans - that Putin will magically make everything right, that Kharkiv will become second Saint Petersburg. They soon realized the folks Putin sent were the worst thugs, the scum of the earth. To quote one of my friends, "For these people to kill a man was like spitting". Still, many people had a good opinion of Putin, putting all blame on the Ukrainian government. That is, until the shelling of Kharkiv begun. Then they realized the truth, but it was too late. It is still mind-boggling to me. Why did he decide to start killing his own people? There was so much good will for him in this city, there is none left. Unbelievable. BTW the aspirations of Ukraine you mention is just one part of the story; Ukraine doesn't decide whether they can join NATO - member states of NATO do. So far, everybody was against, including the USA, France, and Germany. Maybe the war changes it, but I doubt it.