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Yes and nuclear power also needs overprovisioning, storage etc (nuclear power plants can not follow load, they just generate constantly). The question than is w

Yes and nuclear power also needs overprovisioning, storage etc (nuclear power plants can not follow load, they just generate constantly). The question than is would the cost for nuclear overprovisioning or solar/wind overprovisioning be higher. BTW there have been several publications that performed modelling on large integrated grids that found there would be very little overprovisioning needed if we have a Europe wide grid (it always blows somewhere). Fortunately, the European grid is moving in this direction anyway.

HyperRational 5y ago
Vaphell 5y ago
> nuclear power plants can not follow load, they just generate constantly nuh-uh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load-following_power_plant#Nuclear_power_plants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load-following_power_plant#Nuc... Modern nuclear plants with light water reactors are designed to have maneuvering capabilities in the 30-100% range with 5%/minute slope, up to 140 MW/minute.[7] Nuclear power plants in France and in Germany operate in load-following mode and so participate in the primary and secondary frequency control.
- raphaelj 5y ago
  This is not only about being able to increase capacity. A nuclear plant is capital expensive, and it requires to be used as much as possible to be cost competitive.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  If you operate them at 33%, that is equivalent to their power output costing 3x as much, because it costs the same to build and run, 33% or 100%. But their output is already not competitive at 100%. Power offered at more than 3x the going rate finds no bidders. Your debt service demands revenue from sales of 100% output. You have to take whatever you can get for the power, even if it doesn't cover operating cost, to pay down the capital you spent building. When it becomes clear that you cannot bring in enough to pay for operations and debt service, you have no choice but to declare bankruptcy. Of course, all this is foreseeable. So, you don't get the capital to build at all, because who wants to loan money that will predictably be defaulted on?
raphaelj 5y ago
> BTW there have been several publications that performed modelling on large integrated grids that found there would be very little overprovisioning needed if we have a Europe wide grid (it always blows somewhere). I tried for a long time to find such publications (for or against renewables). Could you like a few of these? Thanks.

HyperRational 5y ago

Vaphell 5y ago

> nuclear power plants can not follow load, they just generate constantly nuh-uh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load-following_power_plant#Nuclear_power_plants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load-following_power_plant#Nuc... Modern nuclear plants with light water reactors are designed to have maneuvering capabilities in the 30-100% range with 5%/minute slope, up to 140 MW/minute.[7] Nuclear power plants in France and in Germany operate in load-following mode and so participate in the primary and secondary frequency control.

raphaelj 5y ago
This is not only about being able to increase capacity. A nuclear plant is capital expensive, and it requires to be used as much as possible to be cost competitive.
ncmncm 5y ago
If you operate them at 33%, that is equivalent to their power output costing 3x as much, because it costs the same to build and run, 33% or 100%. But their output is already not competitive at 100%. Power offered at more than 3x the going rate finds no bidders. Your debt service demands revenue from sales of 100% output. You have to take whatever you can get for the power, even if it doesn't cover operating cost, to pay down the capital you spent building. When it becomes clear that you cannot bring in enough to pay for operations and debt service, you have no choice but to declare bankruptcy. Of course, all this is foreseeable. So, you don't get the capital to build at all, because who wants to loan money that will predictably be defaulted on?

raphaelj 5y ago

> BTW there have been several publications that performed modelling on large integrated grids that found there would be very little overprovisioning needed if we have a Europe wide grid (it always blows somewhere). I tried for a long time to find such publications (for or against renewables). Could you like a few of these? Thanks.