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I’m mostly familiar with Vancouver since my wife has relatives there. About half a dozen years ago they imposed a 15% tax on foreign real estate investors. I

I’m mostly familiar with Vancouver since my wife has relatives there. About half a dozen years ago they imposed a 15% tax on foreign real estate investors. I heard 2015 figures suggesting foreign Chinese investors accounted for one third of the $29 billion market in 2015. Vancouver real estate prices had been rising a lot for a long time but I think they felt the foreign investors exacerbated the problem for locals, especially since a lot of investors would just buy homes and no one would live in them.

gareth_untether 5y ago
There's pretty tight rules about leaving properties empty. Daily fines in the thousands.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/empty-homes-tax.aspx https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/empty-homes-t... It looks like more in the "hundreds" given that it's 3%/year of the assessed value. But still, a good start I'd say.
msie 5y ago
Well it's complicated. Foreign investors would be buying mansions that locals couldn't afford anyways. And the locals are just bidding against themselves for the cheaper stuff armed with low interest rates and bank of Ma and Pa. My statistic says that only 20% of RE is foreign owned.
- neonate 5y ago
  20% is a lot in a tight market.
- robonerd 5y ago
  > Foreign investors would be buying mansions that locals couldn't afford anyways. If nobody is around to buy that mansion, it would eventually be sold to a developer who either turns it into apartments, or tears it down and builds an apartment building there. I've seen this happen numerous times in my neighborhood. Also 20% is huge.
  - manquer 5y ago
    If the zoning laws allowed that yes, Vancouver(similar problems in CA) doesn’t want to rezone , so not lot of supply. It is immaterial what rich domestic or international buyers do as their class of property doesn’t change supply of the property you and I can buy. Same with commercial property no difference to us [1] zoning makes each class of property non fungible between other classes , it is like price gold doesn’t much have impact on say price of diamonds. Rezoning benefits the economy and improves the wealth of everyone, even if NIMBYs don’t see it, however it will affect the quality of life of people who don’t want to live in “cities” proper but want the sweet spot where enough density enables them to have niceties of civilization like say neighborhood coffee shops , good schools , hospitals, art /culture/social activists without all the negativities of large cities like homelessness/high crime / poor noise /environment/pollution etc. There is a racist angle too typically people of color, immigrants and any economically disadvantaged groups will not be able to afford to live in these neighborhoods . [1] not strictly true for commercial as it can impact demand even if supply is not impacted , i.e. a new big office building is going to draw a lot of workers want to live near by competing for the same housing .
    - robonerd 5y ago
      If Seattle can get mansions converted/replaced into apartments, I think Vancouver should be able to as well. They're not exactly worlds apart culturally.
- arrosenberg 5y ago
  That's not complicated, it's a second negative externality. Foreigners buying and not-occupying large amounts of valuable real estates drives up the cost of new housing, with no benefit the city, even if you squint really hard. A lack of new housing means high prices for the existing housing that the locals are "just bidding against themselves" on. It's a practice that should be taxed into oblivion.
  - tomatowurst 5y ago
    Your argument makes no sense and its just playing into the xenophobic narrative. There is nobody looking to buy a condo under $1MM mark competing to purchase the 8 digit figure homes in West Vancouver. The rich people selling and buying them aren't hurting at all. Local Canadians are competing to expand their real estate portfolios and they aren't looking at homes in Langley because they sold their mansion in West Vancouver.
    - leetcrew 5y ago
      housing markets aren't disjoint this way. people will consider moving up or down a couple tiers if it makes financial sense (or they don't have a choice). if the market for mansions is particularly tight, you will see rich people start buying condos instead, driving up prices in the midrange. some professionals that would otherwise be targeting those condos will be forced to consider more marginal homes in the low end, moving the price there as well. the same thing can happen in reverse if demand dries up at the high end, but you don't see that as often.
      - tomatowurst 5y ago
        > if the market for mansions is particularly tight, you will see rich people start buying condos instead a west vancouver home easily costs above $10 million, you think they are going to move into a penthouse in Yaletown as their primary residence and thus driving condo prices up? this makes no sense, people aren't selling their west vancouver home to downsize they are in a position to get even more leverage from the bank and expand their portfolio and likely own homes in North Vancouver and/or abroad already. the people selling their homes for ~$1MM are downsizing because they can't buy a home at that price range anymore
- Ensorceled 5y ago
  If developers are building "mansions" entirely for a foreign market, that is a very bad for local housing. It means that those houses actually purely speculation vehicles. Also, "only" 20%? That's a massive number for housing.
- 0ldskool 5y ago
  Well my anecdotal evidence from certain real estate agent says otherwise. She told me she would regularly show foreign buyers around new low/high rise developments only to have them buy entire floors in the Vancouver area. There was once where she had a foreign buyer who didn't know what he wanted. She showed him around at houses, condos, etc... and got no visual indicators he was happy with anything. When she was done and finally asked him if there was any he was happy with he said he would take them all. All foreign buyers she worked with were from China (as she spoke fluent mandarin).

gareth_untether 5y ago

There's pretty tight rules about leaving properties empty. Daily fines in the thousands.

barbazoo 5y ago
https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/empty-homes-tax.aspx https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/empty-homes-t... It looks like more in the "hundreds" given that it's 3%/year of the assessed value. But still, a good start I'd say.

msie 5y ago

Well it's complicated. Foreign investors would be buying mansions that locals couldn't afford anyways. And the locals are just bidding against themselves for the cheaper stuff armed with low interest rates and bank of Ma and Pa. My statistic says that only 20% of RE is foreign owned.

neonate 5y ago
20% is a lot in a tight market.
robonerd 5y ago
> Foreign investors would be buying mansions that locals couldn't afford anyways. If nobody is around to buy that mansion, it would eventually be sold to a developer who either turns it into apartments, or tears it down and builds an apartment building there. I've seen this happen numerous times in my neighborhood. Also 20% is huge.
- manquer 5y ago
  If the zoning laws allowed that yes, Vancouver(similar problems in CA) doesn’t want to rezone , so not lot of supply. It is immaterial what rich domestic or international buyers do as their class of property doesn’t change supply of the property you and I can buy. Same with commercial property no difference to us [1] zoning makes each class of property non fungible between other classes , it is like price gold doesn’t much have impact on say price of diamonds. Rezoning benefits the economy and improves the wealth of everyone, even if NIMBYs don’t see it, however it will affect the quality of life of people who don’t want to live in “cities” proper but want the sweet spot where enough density enables them to have niceties of civilization like say neighborhood coffee shops , good schools , hospitals, art /culture/social activists without all the negativities of large cities like homelessness/high crime / poor noise /environment/pollution etc. There is a racist angle too typically people of color, immigrants and any economically disadvantaged groups will not be able to afford to live in these neighborhoods . [1] not strictly true for commercial as it can impact demand even if supply is not impacted , i.e. a new big office building is going to draw a lot of workers want to live near by competing for the same housing .
  - robonerd 5y ago
    If Seattle can get mansions converted/replaced into apartments, I think Vancouver should be able to as well. They're not exactly worlds apart culturally.
arrosenberg 5y ago
That's not complicated, it's a second negative externality. Foreigners buying and not-occupying large amounts of valuable real estates drives up the cost of new housing, with no benefit the city, even if you squint really hard. A lack of new housing means high prices for the existing housing that the locals are "just bidding against themselves" on. It's a practice that should be taxed into oblivion.
- tomatowurst 5y ago
  Your argument makes no sense and its just playing into the xenophobic narrative. There is nobody looking to buy a condo under $1MM mark competing to purchase the 8 digit figure homes in West Vancouver. The rich people selling and buying them aren't hurting at all. Local Canadians are competing to expand their real estate portfolios and they aren't looking at homes in Langley because they sold their mansion in West Vancouver.
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    housing markets aren't disjoint this way. people will consider moving up or down a couple tiers if it makes financial sense (or they don't have a choice). if the market for mansions is particularly tight, you will see rich people start buying condos instead, driving up prices in the midrange. some professionals that would otherwise be targeting those condos will be forced to consider more marginal homes in the low end, moving the price there as well. the same thing can happen in reverse if demand dries up at the high end, but you don't see that as often.
    - tomatowurst 5y ago
      > if the market for mansions is particularly tight, you will see rich people start buying condos instead a west vancouver home easily costs above $10 million, you think they are going to move into a penthouse in Yaletown as their primary residence and thus driving condo prices up? this makes no sense, people aren't selling their west vancouver home to downsize they are in a position to get even more leverage from the bank and expand their portfolio and likely own homes in North Vancouver and/or abroad already. the people selling their homes for ~$1MM are downsizing because they can't buy a home at that price range anymore
Ensorceled 5y ago
If developers are building "mansions" entirely for a foreign market, that is a very bad for local housing. It means that those houses actually purely speculation vehicles. Also, "only" 20%? That's a massive number for housing.
0ldskool 5y ago
Well my anecdotal evidence from certain real estate agent says otherwise. She told me she would regularly show foreign buyers around new low/high rise developments only to have them buy entire floors in the Vancouver area. There was once where she had a foreign buyer who didn't know what he wanted. She showed him around at houses, condos, etc... and got no visual indicators he was happy with anything. When she was done and finally asked him if there was any he was happy with he said he would take them all. All foreign buyers she worked with were from China (as she spoke fluent mandarin).