4 ms·

Dependes on how is the plan to achieve it. If enough people keeps on working to produce enough stuff for everyone who want to buy it.

EricE 5y ago
Exactly. With the ongoing disaster of COVID Bucks, I can't believe people aren't embarrassed enough that they still want to bring UBI up.
- sascha_sl 5y ago
  The disaster of employers having to raise their standards (and wages) to actually attract workers?
  - sharemywin 5y ago
    but if everything the worker was going to buy goes up in price to offset the wages then what's the point? so they can feel richer? That's why this question of inflation is important. But I would argue it's consumer goods inflation not the price of high end real estate or priceless art etc.
- major505 5y ago
  how I see UBI: we are moving to a very automated society that will have most things produced by machines. The only work available probably will be for people who knows to to make and maintain the machines and people who work in things that machines still can do, specially service workers. So most people will not be able to do any job, or jobs that pay enough for them to survive, so, I can't se where UBI would work without inflation, since productivity would be high. The thing is, if you look around, most people in the world problably already do a job that could be done by a very simple script, specially office work. My first job, I got 12 people fired from financial sector in a university because the only thing they did all day was counting checks and money manually.
myshpa 5y ago
We don't need everybody working. 75% of jobs are bullshit jobs. Just 2% of people work in agriculture. We slave 30-40 years for a priviledge to live in a house. (Almost) all money in circulation is owned/issued by banks, and the inflation/interest is a way to keep us all in the rat race, all the time consuming, amassing things, never thinking. Our civilization is a construct, a glass cage, and we're all afraid to break through. We don't need (more) stuff. We need to become adults.
- thirdwhrldPzz 5y ago
- throwaway4aday 5y ago
  I'd rather live in a house that fits my needs and wants and personal style than I would in a mass produced apartment. I'd rather eat the type of food I enjoy rather than some standard rations cooked up by a factory. I want a certain amount of stuff in my life to satisfy my interests rather than living in a bare room and only enjoying communal property. I prefer to live in a world where silly things like mobile phones and video game graphics cards can lead to revolutions in computing rather than playing the same chess games and watching ballet over and over again for hundreds of years. That said, if you do prefer to live a different way then I'm fine with that, just don't try to foist it upon other people. I would like there to be an option for people who don't want to be part of the rat race where they can go live a relatively comfortable subsistence lifestyle and enjoy seasonal vegetables and walks in the park while the outside world rushes past. It'd probably be nice to vacation there occasionally to take a break from things, maybe it could be funded by tourism.
  - myshpa 5y ago
    You know, the way I see it, we can have either star-trek like future, or blade-runner like. I would very much prefer the first one. And it does not mean we would have to have mass produced apartments (see cob buildings, hemp crete - the legislature/corporations is/are the problem). There is enough place to give everybody a house & a garden, ideally sustainably built (no plastics in the walls etc.), and with UBI live a good life, without beeing dependent on a job, you don't want, just to be able to live. What progress that would bring. I'm also not talking about rations and/or soylent - I want healthy vegetables/nuts/seeds, not the unhealthy food & poisons (herbicides,pesticides, vegetable oils, antibiotics, pfoas ...) we're fed right now with our exploitative market economy. I want healthy planet, full of (free-living) animals and clean air & rivers. I also want computers (not devices) and agi - but without nsa & patents, please. I can only dream. But if we continue to do business-as-usual and keep doing the same stuff over and over, pretending that the rat-race is essential to our progress, and pray for economic growth in expense of our living space (the little blue dot), that's the insanity Einstein was talking about. We don't have to eat & consume to the extinction. That was my point. And UBI might just be the way to do it.

EricE 5y ago

Exactly. With the ongoing disaster of COVID Bucks, I can't believe people aren't embarrassed enough that they still want to bring UBI up.

sascha_sl 5y ago
The disaster of employers having to raise their standards (and wages) to actually attract workers?
- sharemywin 5y ago
  but if everything the worker was going to buy goes up in price to offset the wages then what's the point? so they can feel richer? That's why this question of inflation is important. But I would argue it's consumer goods inflation not the price of high end real estate or priceless art etc.
major505 5y ago
how I see UBI: we are moving to a very automated society that will have most things produced by machines. The only work available probably will be for people who knows to to make and maintain the machines and people who work in things that machines still can do, specially service workers. So most people will not be able to do any job, or jobs that pay enough for them to survive, so, I can't se where UBI would work without inflation, since productivity would be high. The thing is, if you look around, most people in the world problably already do a job that could be done by a very simple script, specially office work. My first job, I got 12 people fired from financial sector in a university because the only thing they did all day was counting checks and money manually.

myshpa 5y ago

We don't need everybody working. 75% of jobs are bullshit jobs. Just 2% of people work in agriculture. We slave 30-40 years for a priviledge to live in a house. (Almost) all money in circulation is owned/issued by banks, and the inflation/interest is a way to keep us all in the rat race, all the time consuming, amassing things, never thinking. Our civilization is a construct, a glass cage, and we're all afraid to break through. We don't need (more) stuff. We need to become adults.

thirdwhrldPzz 5y ago
throwaway4aday 5y ago
I'd rather live in a house that fits my needs and wants and personal style than I would in a mass produced apartment. I'd rather eat the type of food I enjoy rather than some standard rations cooked up by a factory. I want a certain amount of stuff in my life to satisfy my interests rather than living in a bare room and only enjoying communal property. I prefer to live in a world where silly things like mobile phones and video game graphics cards can lead to revolutions in computing rather than playing the same chess games and watching ballet over and over again for hundreds of years. That said, if you do prefer to live a different way then I'm fine with that, just don't try to foist it upon other people. I would like there to be an option for people who don't want to be part of the rat race where they can go live a relatively comfortable subsistence lifestyle and enjoy seasonal vegetables and walks in the park while the outside world rushes past. It'd probably be nice to vacation there occasionally to take a break from things, maybe it could be funded by tourism.
- myshpa 5y ago
  You know, the way I see it, we can have either star-trek like future, or blade-runner like. I would very much prefer the first one. And it does not mean we would have to have mass produced apartments (see cob buildings, hemp crete - the legislature/corporations is/are the problem). There is enough place to give everybody a house & a garden, ideally sustainably built (no plastics in the walls etc.), and with UBI live a good life, without beeing dependent on a job, you don't want, just to be able to live. What progress that would bring. I'm also not talking about rations and/or soylent - I want healthy vegetables/nuts/seeds, not the unhealthy food & poisons (herbicides,pesticides, vegetable oils, antibiotics, pfoas ...) we're fed right now with our exploitative market economy. I want healthy planet, full of (free-living) animals and clean air & rivers. I also want computers (not devices) and agi - but without nsa & patents, please. I can only dream. But if we continue to do business-as-usual and keep doing the same stuff over and over, pretending that the rat-race is essential to our progress, and pray for economic growth in expense of our living space (the little blue dot), that's the insanity Einstein was talking about. We don't have to eat & consume to the extinction. That was my point. And UBI might just be the way to do it.