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> What's the point of it? Live for others. You (and I) are incredibly fortunate. We have our basic needs taken care of. We have more than that. There are many

> What's the point of it? Live for others. You (and I) are incredibly fortunate. We have our basic needs taken care of. We have more than that. There are many, many, people in the world who have problems that you can help solve. That could be - spending time with a lonely elderly person, volunteering with the homeless, building a website for a charity that can't afford to pay for a great one, building a startup that solves a problem for people... teach someone a skill. It can be anything. Live to help other people. They need you. If you don't get much out of it - don't worry, they will. So if you're not particularly bothered about what you do, go help them. The world is full of important problems and people that need help, there's a vast number of things to work on that will make a difference to other people.

Draiken 5y ago
It's noble, but for me it's once again... pointless. I don't have the money or power to enact any meaningful change. I can give my time or some money to others, but I'm not really fixing anything. I'm just drying ice. Maybe I'm not selfless enough? I've never tried anything like that, so that's at least something new. Might give it a try
- altdataseller 5y ago
  You might not have the power to change society or the world, as a whole. But you definitely can impact individuals. If you volunteer as a tutor for kids with learning disabilities for instance, I’m pretty sure you’ll make an impact on that individual.
- fallat 5y ago
  You're focusing too much on the macro and "the universe". You live one life; enjoy it and help others to be able to enjoy theirs too. Yeah, everything is pointless if you view your life through a cosmic lens. Is it pointless for the ant or bee to exist and work for its colony?
- bognition 5y ago
  Is it possible you’re setting your threshold for meaningful change to high? I have friends that have made it their life’s work to get their city to install more bike lanes. They’ve been pushing for a decade and the city has installed a few lanes in particularly dangerous places. They have likely saved a bikers life. I have friends that volunteer at a crisis center and all they do is talk with people who need help. They aren’t making big changes but are positively impacting the lives of people around them. There are so many meaningful ways to improve the world around you that don’t require you to have millions of dollars or to go into politics.
  - seanw444 5y ago
    > that don’t require you to have millions of dollars or to go into politics. These sound like the same thing to me.
    - kqr 5y ago
      And if you dislike that, you can work on solving that! It doesn't take grand gestures. Start by reducing the level of plutocracy where you work, for example. People will remember what that feels like and bring it over to their political opinions.
  - snikeris 5y ago
    Yeah I think this is a problem with modern life. Our ancestors knew only of their surroundings and their tribe. Helping someone near you was obviously meaningful. Now the scale that our minds grapple with is infinite: We know we’re a tiny part of an infinite universe, our tribe is billions of people. My solution is focus. Reduce the scale of your concern to where you can have an impact. You can certainly have an impact on the people around you. If that doesn’t seem worthwhile, try to figure out why the people you’re close to matter so little to you.
    - sethammons 5y ago
      > You can certainly have an impact on the people around you. If that doesn’t seem worthwhile, try to figure out why the people you’re close to matter so little to you That is very well said; I appreciated reading it
- rsyring 5y ago
  I think your definition of "meaningful" might need to be revisited. It seems it was forged from the perspective of a younger self whose understanding of what was likely or even possible was ungrounded. You've now adjusted somewhat to the new reality but the sense of what would really be valuable is stuck in the past. It's ok to, and even necessary, to adjust your sense of what's valuable and meaningful. Yes, you probably won't make world scale changes, but that doesn't mean the more ordinary things one can do to serve others is meaningless. It's just different meaning. There's a book, Ordinary by Michael Horton, the first two chapters of which were instrumental in helping me make a transition like this. That book is coming from a Christian worldview so some will object to that perspective. Unfortunately I don't know of anything like it from a secular perspective that I could recommend.
- corobo 5y ago
  Remember to factor in a stint of isolation if you were in any form of lockdown Don’t forget to give your social batteries a jump start if needed before evaluating long term goals. It’s hard to care when you’ve not had your quota of social interaction filled in a while. Caring about stuff is a positive side effect of ego, and ego needs social interaction for fuel (I might be talking nonsense here biologically, pinch of salt) Whether this is relevant or not I wish you the best in finding the thing that clicks
- jebarker 5y ago
  I had a similar feeling of pointlessness. For me I realized that that feeling stemmed from viewing myself as powerless and small in the face of the complexity and chaos of the world. How could I possibly make any meaningful change from where I am? I came to believe that everyone is in that same boat. Those we look up to as having made "meaningful" change were just the right people in the right place and time and had relatively little control over that destiny. That probably won't be me or you, but it definitely won't happen to someone that starves to death, dies from a preventable illness or is just fighting to survive each day. So, I came to believe that the greatest leverage I have for making change in the world is to remove barriers for as many other people as possible and just increase the pool of people that might be the right person in the right place and time to solve the really big problems we all face. Furthermore, spreading the idea that helping others is the best way to help the world can leverage a network effect. You might help the person that helps the person that is then able to solve a really big problem.
- bitexploder 5y ago
  Existential crisis with a dash of nihilism. I see you have already gained a number suggestions. It ends up being pretty simple for me when I feel this setting in. Focus on what I enjoy and cultivate deep hobbies. Gain new skills. Turn off the content consumption in your life unless it is making you a better person. Stay curious toward the endless wonder that exists on this planet. You can’t fix the world or other people. I did sell a company and make a lot of money. Does not change much. Did not make me feel successful or somehow complete as a human being. HN is a poor substitute for seeing a therapist. You are not alone and millions of people feel the way you do from time to time. If this problem feels “bigger” than you, find someone to talk to about it.
- sethammons 5y ago
  > meaningful change Says who? The tad bit of encouragement you give a younger person could change the entire direction of their life, and you may never hear about it. We don't get to know all the ways we influence others.
- swat535 5y ago
  Saint Mother Teresa of Calcutta was once asked during an interview how did you manage to help so many people? Her reply was: "I just started with one person". You don't need to look far to find someone who is hungry; sure many people on this orange site may not be hungry of food but I bet there are many who starved of love. It really doesn't take much to offer an ear to someone in this lonely day and age. Perhaps it's part of my religious background but I personally find that if the foundation of one's life is based on material things, then one is in a constant state of unhappiness. I come from a country that is considered poor but Western standards, however looking back I realize that the West is wealthy yet poor at the same time. Most are just busy worshiping money, sex, status or power. It's like we forgot about our humanity. So yes, you may not be able to change _the_ world but you can change _one_ world at a time.
  - mvdwoord 5y ago
    Mother Teresa may not be the best example here.
    - screenbreakout 5y ago
      Could you be more specific as to why? I'm sure you have a crunchy anecdote to share :-)
      - selimthegrim 5y ago
        She basically did the bare minimum, and let people die in her places because suffering would make them see Jesus.
      - avgDev 5y ago
        Mother Theresa has caused a lot of pain and suffering. She would get world class medical treatment, while people would be dying in severe pain in her hospice and she would tell them some bs about suffering making them great. They also had poor sanitary practices at the hospices and would contract HIV. She is very much NOT a saint. https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/the-dark-side-of-mother-teresa-b8b9f93df835 https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/the-dark-side-of-mot...
- tppiotrowski 5y ago
  Try posting answers on stackoverflow. Ideally, not the low hanging fruit that takes 5 seconds to solve but the difficult questions most seem to avoid.
- pnutjam 5y ago
  I teach kids this, "you might not be able to make the whole world better, but you can make your neighbors life better." I also heard something like, "everybody wants to help the world, nobody wants to help mom do dishes." Enjoy the little things and do what you can to make the people around you a little happier. That's the secret to a good life.
- kqr 5y ago
  Others have said it but I'll say it again. You need to recalibrate what you think of as meaningful change. Contrary to popular belief, history was never written by great men. You might associate a few individuals with the great movements of history, but the people you know by name only echoed the popular opinion of their time. The real wheels of history inch forward when common people influence their neighbours and children to strive for something a little better than the status quo. Do something. Take the smallest step that is recognisably in the direction you want society to go.
dangerface 5y ago
> If you don't get much out of it - don't worry, they will. Im very selfish I get nothing out of helping others but I do it anyway and usually it ends up hurting the person I am trying to help, as the help is unwanted or the way I was helping was unwanted. You would think people would just be grateful for you trying but it turns out they are just as focused on themselves as myself. It seems most people don't really want help they want some one to boss around and they call that help. I have no interest in being some ones lacky for no ones benefit but theirs in the same way no one wants to be my lacky. Helping people is easy helping people in a way they won't hate you for it is very difficult.
- wing-_-nuts 5y ago
  Man come on. This sounds like you've tried to help some people you care about with issues that are down to a lack of discipline (addiction, financial problems, etc), and people resented you for it. Now you're writing off all charity and volunteerism because of it? Get real. This is just lazy nihilism.
  - cko 5y ago
    I have had many examples in my life where helping friends have made them dependent on it and later take it for granted. I didn't really set out to help them, either. Just kinda kept saying yes until they expected me to keep saying yes and became 'surprised' if I hesitated when they asked for too much. It was easy for me most of the time, having the freedom of being single and tons of free time. And these are good people. People I like and am still friends with. Maybe not the most introspective people, but then again probably human nature at work. My selfish motivation for helping was to be liked or respected more. And it made feel good. I got what I wanted but there is also a cost.
  - dangerface 5y ago
    Im not trying to write off all charity and volunteerism, my comment is about myself and the problems I have trying to help others, I simply noticed that how I was trying to help wasn't helping. For example you'r comment to "Get real" what does that mean? I assume you don't think I am a robot I assume you mean it as genuinely trying to help in the way you might tell an addict to get real or grow up its a platitude telling them to stop doing the thing they know is bad. A few years ago I would have agreed with you but I have had a realisation about the way I try to help people, does it help them? Will they stop being addicted? probably not, most likely they have heard it before and will just take offence at being talked down to they will double down on the bad behaviour out of spite. Does it help me? When I tell people to grow up it boosts my ego makes me feel like I know what I am talking about, like their problems are so easily solved if only they where on my level of understanding. When I realise that my style of help, helps no one and nothing but my ego is it really help? No it's not, its simply me being arrogant. When I realise that my style of help is no help at all should I continue to subject people to it? No it's not helpful to do so, I don't need my ego stroked and I don't want to hurt others with my good intentions. This doesn't mean that I am agains't helping others I simply realised a problem with how I specifically was trying to help others, I was just trying to boost my ego. I wish I could claim this realisation as my own but in truth it was pointed out to me. If some one pointed out that your idea of help was the same as mine could you accept this realisation or would you become resentful?
layer8 5y ago
> > What's the point of it? > Live for others. What’s the point of that? They are a blip in the universe just the same. Adding one level of indirection doesn’t solve the existential problem.
- falaby 5y ago
  Screw the universe. People need help, and you can give it to them. It might not be "existential", but at least it's real.
  - layer8 5y ago
    Living for yourself is also real. The point is that if one doesn’t feel meaning and purpose in one’s life due to existential awareness, then moving the focus to other people doesn’t help with that.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
selimthegrim 5y ago
“If you have come to help me, you are wasting your time. If you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together.“ - Lilla Watson

Draiken 5y ago

It's noble, but for me it's once again... pointless. I don't have the money or power to enact any meaningful change. I can give my time or some money to others, but I'm not really fixing anything. I'm just drying ice. Maybe I'm not selfless enough? I've never tried anything like that, so that's at least something new. Might give it a try

altdataseller 5y ago
You might not have the power to change society or the world, as a whole. But you definitely can impact individuals. If you volunteer as a tutor for kids with learning disabilities for instance, I’m pretty sure you’ll make an impact on that individual.
fallat 5y ago
You're focusing too much on the macro and "the universe". You live one life; enjoy it and help others to be able to enjoy theirs too. Yeah, everything is pointless if you view your life through a cosmic lens. Is it pointless for the ant or bee to exist and work for its colony?
bognition 5y ago
Is it possible you’re setting your threshold for meaningful change to high? I have friends that have made it their life’s work to get their city to install more bike lanes. They’ve been pushing for a decade and the city has installed a few lanes in particularly dangerous places. They have likely saved a bikers life. I have friends that volunteer at a crisis center and all they do is talk with people who need help. They aren’t making big changes but are positively impacting the lives of people around them. There are so many meaningful ways to improve the world around you that don’t require you to have millions of dollars or to go into politics.
- seanw444 5y ago
  > that don’t require you to have millions of dollars or to go into politics. These sound like the same thing to me.
  - kqr 5y ago
    And if you dislike that, you can work on solving that! It doesn't take grand gestures. Start by reducing the level of plutocracy where you work, for example. People will remember what that feels like and bring it over to their political opinions.
- snikeris 5y ago
  Yeah I think this is a problem with modern life. Our ancestors knew only of their surroundings and their tribe. Helping someone near you was obviously meaningful. Now the scale that our minds grapple with is infinite: We know we’re a tiny part of an infinite universe, our tribe is billions of people. My solution is focus. Reduce the scale of your concern to where you can have an impact. You can certainly have an impact on the people around you. If that doesn’t seem worthwhile, try to figure out why the people you’re close to matter so little to you.
  - sethammons 5y ago
    > You can certainly have an impact on the people around you. If that doesn’t seem worthwhile, try to figure out why the people you’re close to matter so little to you That is very well said; I appreciated reading it
rsyring 5y ago
I think your definition of "meaningful" might need to be revisited. It seems it was forged from the perspective of a younger self whose understanding of what was likely or even possible was ungrounded. You've now adjusted somewhat to the new reality but the sense of what would really be valuable is stuck in the past. It's ok to, and even necessary, to adjust your sense of what's valuable and meaningful. Yes, you probably won't make world scale changes, but that doesn't mean the more ordinary things one can do to serve others is meaningless. It's just different meaning. There's a book, Ordinary by Michael Horton, the first two chapters of which were instrumental in helping me make a transition like this. That book is coming from a Christian worldview so some will object to that perspective. Unfortunately I don't know of anything like it from a secular perspective that I could recommend.
corobo 5y ago
Remember to factor in a stint of isolation if you were in any form of lockdown Don’t forget to give your social batteries a jump start if needed before evaluating long term goals. It’s hard to care when you’ve not had your quota of social interaction filled in a while. Caring about stuff is a positive side effect of ego, and ego needs social interaction for fuel (I might be talking nonsense here biologically, pinch of salt) Whether this is relevant or not I wish you the best in finding the thing that clicks
jebarker 5y ago
I had a similar feeling of pointlessness. For me I realized that that feeling stemmed from viewing myself as powerless and small in the face of the complexity and chaos of the world. How could I possibly make any meaningful change from where I am? I came to believe that everyone is in that same boat. Those we look up to as having made "meaningful" change were just the right people in the right place and time and had relatively little control over that destiny. That probably won't be me or you, but it definitely won't happen to someone that starves to death, dies from a preventable illness or is just fighting to survive each day. So, I came to believe that the greatest leverage I have for making change in the world is to remove barriers for as many other people as possible and just increase the pool of people that might be the right person in the right place and time to solve the really big problems we all face. Furthermore, spreading the idea that helping others is the best way to help the world can leverage a network effect. You might help the person that helps the person that is then able to solve a really big problem.
bitexploder 5y ago
Existential crisis with a dash of nihilism. I see you have already gained a number suggestions. It ends up being pretty simple for me when I feel this setting in. Focus on what I enjoy and cultivate deep hobbies. Gain new skills. Turn off the content consumption in your life unless it is making you a better person. Stay curious toward the endless wonder that exists on this planet. You can’t fix the world or other people. I did sell a company and make a lot of money. Does not change much. Did not make me feel successful or somehow complete as a human being. HN is a poor substitute for seeing a therapist. You are not alone and millions of people feel the way you do from time to time. If this problem feels “bigger” than you, find someone to talk to about it.
sethammons 5y ago
> meaningful change Says who? The tad bit of encouragement you give a younger person could change the entire direction of their life, and you may never hear about it. We don't get to know all the ways we influence others.
swat535 5y ago
Saint Mother Teresa of Calcutta was once asked during an interview how did you manage to help so many people? Her reply was: "I just started with one person". You don't need to look far to find someone who is hungry; sure many people on this orange site may not be hungry of food but I bet there are many who starved of love. It really doesn't take much to offer an ear to someone in this lonely day and age. Perhaps it's part of my religious background but I personally find that if the foundation of one's life is based on material things, then one is in a constant state of unhappiness. I come from a country that is considered poor but Western standards, however looking back I realize that the West is wealthy yet poor at the same time. Most are just busy worshiping money, sex, status or power. It's like we forgot about our humanity. So yes, you may not be able to change _the_ world but you can change _one_ world at a time.
- mvdwoord 5y ago
  Mother Teresa may not be the best example here.
  - screenbreakout 5y ago
    Could you be more specific as to why? I'm sure you have a crunchy anecdote to share :-)
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      She basically did the bare minimum, and let people die in her places because suffering would make them see Jesus.
    - avgDev 5y ago
      Mother Theresa has caused a lot of pain and suffering. She would get world class medical treatment, while people would be dying in severe pain in her hospice and she would tell them some bs about suffering making them great. They also had poor sanitary practices at the hospices and would contract HIV. She is very much NOT a saint. https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/the-dark-side-of-mother-teresa-b8b9f93df835 https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/the-dark-side-of-mot...
tppiotrowski 5y ago
Try posting answers on stackoverflow. Ideally, not the low hanging fruit that takes 5 seconds to solve but the difficult questions most seem to avoid.
pnutjam 5y ago
I teach kids this, "you might not be able to make the whole world better, but you can make your neighbors life better." I also heard something like, "everybody wants to help the world, nobody wants to help mom do dishes." Enjoy the little things and do what you can to make the people around you a little happier. That's the secret to a good life.
kqr 5y ago
Others have said it but I'll say it again. You need to recalibrate what you think of as meaningful change. Contrary to popular belief, history was never written by great men. You might associate a few individuals with the great movements of history, but the people you know by name only echoed the popular opinion of their time. The real wheels of history inch forward when common people influence their neighbours and children to strive for something a little better than the status quo. Do something. Take the smallest step that is recognisably in the direction you want society to go.

dangerface 5y ago

> If you don't get much out of it - don't worry, they will. Im very selfish I get nothing out of helping others but I do it anyway and usually it ends up hurting the person I am trying to help, as the help is unwanted or the way I was helping was unwanted. You would think people would just be grateful for you trying but it turns out they are just as focused on themselves as myself. It seems most people don't really want help they want some one to boss around and they call that help. I have no interest in being some ones lacky for no ones benefit but theirs in the same way no one wants to be my lacky. Helping people is easy helping people in a way they won't hate you for it is very difficult.

wing-_-nuts 5y ago
Man come on. This sounds like you've tried to help some people you care about with issues that are down to a lack of discipline (addiction, financial problems, etc), and people resented you for it. Now you're writing off all charity and volunteerism because of it? Get real. This is just lazy nihilism.
- cko 5y ago
  I have had many examples in my life where helping friends have made them dependent on it and later take it for granted. I didn't really set out to help them, either. Just kinda kept saying yes until they expected me to keep saying yes and became 'surprised' if I hesitated when they asked for too much. It was easy for me most of the time, having the freedom of being single and tons of free time. And these are good people. People I like and am still friends with. Maybe not the most introspective people, but then again probably human nature at work. My selfish motivation for helping was to be liked or respected more. And it made feel good. I got what I wanted but there is also a cost.
- dangerface 5y ago
  Im not trying to write off all charity and volunteerism, my comment is about myself and the problems I have trying to help others, I simply noticed that how I was trying to help wasn't helping. For example you'r comment to "Get real" what does that mean? I assume you don't think I am a robot I assume you mean it as genuinely trying to help in the way you might tell an addict to get real or grow up its a platitude telling them to stop doing the thing they know is bad. A few years ago I would have agreed with you but I have had a realisation about the way I try to help people, does it help them? Will they stop being addicted? probably not, most likely they have heard it before and will just take offence at being talked down to they will double down on the bad behaviour out of spite. Does it help me? When I tell people to grow up it boosts my ego makes me feel like I know what I am talking about, like their problems are so easily solved if only they where on my level of understanding. When I realise that my style of help, helps no one and nothing but my ego is it really help? No it's not, its simply me being arrogant. When I realise that my style of help is no help at all should I continue to subject people to it? No it's not helpful to do so, I don't need my ego stroked and I don't want to hurt others with my good intentions. This doesn't mean that I am agains't helping others I simply realised a problem with how I specifically was trying to help others, I was just trying to boost my ego. I wish I could claim this realisation as my own but in truth it was pointed out to me. If some one pointed out that your idea of help was the same as mine could you accept this realisation or would you become resentful?

layer8 5y ago

> > What's the point of it? > Live for others. What’s the point of that? They are a blip in the universe just the same. Adding one level of indirection doesn’t solve the existential problem.

falaby 5y ago
Screw the universe. People need help, and you can give it to them. It might not be "existential", but at least it's real.
- layer8 5y ago
  Living for yourself is also real. The point is that if one doesn’t feel meaning and purpose in one’s life due to existential awareness, then moving the focus to other people doesn’t help with that.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

selimthegrim 5y ago

“If you have come to help me, you are wasting your time. If you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together.“ - Lilla Watson