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Of course the war started much earlier when Putin realized Ukrainians don't want to be his vassals like Belorussians. This was completely unacceptable for him b

Of course the war started much earlier when Putin realized Ukrainians don't want to be his vassals like Belorussians. This was completely unacceptable for him because he considers Ukraine to be his own territory, not a country with people who can decide about their own fate. That's why whenever people in Ukraine or Belarus protest, they got shot with sharp bullets. But in Euromaidan it turned out the overall feeling to turn away from Russia and form a bond with Europe was too strong to stifle and Putin decided to use soldiers: first, to take over Crimea, which was very easy because most people there were Russians, and then, when he saw no opposition, he decided to take over Donbas. ATthis point Ukrainians realized if they don't do something he will eat their country patch by patch so they started to fight. But Putin never gave up. The argument he repeats about Mexico is ridiculous because Russia is already bordering with several NATO countries, and none of them would ever think about attacking Russia - you just don't attack a nuclear superpower. It is a convenient excuse he's using all the time but he's a few decades late. He is thinking in terms of ancient tribes fighting about some piece of land - nobody is thinking in this way today. Especially in Europe with increasing integration, freedom of movement, being able to work where you wish, the ancient ideas of getting more and more land for your tribe seem completely outdated (and should be for Russia, too - with so much land and so few people).

yucky 5y ago
Interested to hear your answer to: If Mexico joined a "defensive pact" with China, and the Chinese military then set up shop in Juarez do we honestly think the US would let that fly? If not, wouldn't that by your definition make Mexico a vassal state of the US?
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  You know why the Mexico situation is inadequate? Because the border with the USA is completely different than it is in Europe. In Europe most countries are in NATO, and some of these countries have been bordering with Russia for several decades now. No aggression on the part of any Eropean state towards Russia happened. In the meantime, Russia attacked Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine. These states didn't attack Russia - Russia was the aggressor in each case. Of course Chechnya is a vassal of Russia now, as are Abkhazia and South Ossetia. NATO didn't attack anybody. As for the core of your questions, we don't have to speculate because we already know what would happen if someone decided to place nuclear rocket launchers close to American border - we've seen it already during the Cuban crisis. Both countries agreed that land-based nuclear missiles aiming at Russia in Europe will be placed only in France and the UK, and not in Germany, for example, whereas those aiming at Western Europe will be placed in Kaliningrad Special Region. Recently, Putin decided he will move some warheads also to Belarus.
  - yucky 5y ago
    >Both countries agreed that land-based nuclear missiles aiming at Russia in Europe will be placed only in France and the UK, and not in Germany, for example They also both agreed Ukraine would never try to join NATO, and yet...
    - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
      There is no "yet". NATO consistently refused repeated requests of Ukraine to join. Even the Ukrainians themselves weren't too much interested before Putin started the war in 2014 (<30% in 2012, almost 70% five years later). The situation of Ukrainians is simply tragic, they never had any real choice. They could either become Putin's slaves or face a bloody war. They made their choice hoping he would not attack but were mistaken, and now they have to pay. After the war is over the whole Europe will start rebuilding their country, but nobody will revive the ones killed by Putin's army.
      - yucky 5y ago
        >Even the Ukrainians themselves weren't too much interested before Putin started the war in 2014 Why do you think Putin invaded in 2014? Remember they had a coup in Ukraine, and the new regime was very anti-Russia. Immediately after the 2014 coup the new US-approved government changed the Constitution to the 2004 version which allowed for a vote to join NATO[1]. So then Russia invaded Crimea as a result, since by NATO rule, a country not in control of its borders would not be eligible to join NATO. Then in December 2014 Ukraine voted to abandon neutrality and begin the process of getting into NATO anyway.[2] Trump's presidency definitely put a pause on this plan, which is why there were no/limited hostilities in those 4 years. But now that Biden is back on top, Ukraine has been pushing towards NATO again. And that isn't to excuse Russia, but we have to be honest about what these triggers are. This isn't happening in a vacuum. [1] https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/191727.html https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/191727.html [2] https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrali...
        5y ago

yucky 5y ago

Interested to hear your answer to: If Mexico joined a "defensive pact" with China, and the Chinese military then set up shop in Juarez do we honestly think the US would let that fly? If not, wouldn't that by your definition make Mexico a vassal state of the US?

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
You know why the Mexico situation is inadequate? Because the border with the USA is completely different than it is in Europe. In Europe most countries are in NATO, and some of these countries have been bordering with Russia for several decades now. No aggression on the part of any Eropean state towards Russia happened. In the meantime, Russia attacked Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine. These states didn't attack Russia - Russia was the aggressor in each case. Of course Chechnya is a vassal of Russia now, as are Abkhazia and South Ossetia. NATO didn't attack anybody. As for the core of your questions, we don't have to speculate because we already know what would happen if someone decided to place nuclear rocket launchers close to American border - we've seen it already during the Cuban crisis. Both countries agreed that land-based nuclear missiles aiming at Russia in Europe will be placed only in France and the UK, and not in Germany, for example, whereas those aiming at Western Europe will be placed in Kaliningrad Special Region. Recently, Putin decided he will move some warheads also to Belarus.
- yucky 5y ago
  >Both countries agreed that land-based nuclear missiles aiming at Russia in Europe will be placed only in France and the UK, and not in Germany, for example They also both agreed Ukraine would never try to join NATO, and yet...
  - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
    There is no "yet". NATO consistently refused repeated requests of Ukraine to join. Even the Ukrainians themselves weren't too much interested before Putin started the war in 2014 (<30% in 2012, almost 70% five years later). The situation of Ukrainians is simply tragic, they never had any real choice. They could either become Putin's slaves or face a bloody war. They made their choice hoping he would not attack but were mistaken, and now they have to pay. After the war is over the whole Europe will start rebuilding their country, but nobody will revive the ones killed by Putin's army.
    - yucky 5y ago
      >Even the Ukrainians themselves weren't too much interested before Putin started the war in 2014 Why do you think Putin invaded in 2014? Remember they had a coup in Ukraine, and the new regime was very anti-Russia. Immediately after the 2014 coup the new US-approved government changed the Constitution to the 2004 version which allowed for a vote to join NATO[1]. So then Russia invaded Crimea as a result, since by NATO rule, a country not in control of its borders would not be eligible to join NATO. Then in December 2014 Ukraine voted to abandon neutrality and begin the process of getting into NATO anyway.[2] Trump's presidency definitely put a pause on this plan, which is why there were no/limited hostilities in those 4 years. But now that Biden is back on top, Ukraine has been pushing towards NATO again. And that isn't to excuse Russia, but we have to be honest about what these triggers are. This isn't happening in a vacuum. [1] https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/191727.html https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/191727.html [2] https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrali...
      - 5y ago