6 ms·

Show HN: Glicol - A Graph-Oriented Live Coding Language/DSP Lib Written in Rust

58 points by chaosprint 5y ago

chaosprint 5y ago
Hi HN, It has been about 2 years since I started developing Glicol. You can try it here: https://glicol.org https://glicol.org Recently I added support for VST, Bela and responsive design for mobile devices. It would be great if you can try and give me some feedback here or in the GitHub repo: https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol Thanks!
- lejboua 5y ago
  I have zero musical knowledge or experience and I just spent the last 30 minutes tweaking the examples in the project homepage. Super fun, incredible project! Thanks for this!
  - chaosprint 5y ago
    Thank you for your reply. It's really nice to hear it.
ushakov 5y ago
for anybody interested: you could also write DSP code in Faust and convert it to rust to use in your VST!
- chaosprint 5y ago
  Thanks for your reply! Faust is a great project, and it is really versatile. However, I have checked some generated Rust code from Faust and found it relies on some unsafe blocks there. My concern is if one wishes to use Rust for audio, it doesn't make a lot of sense not to control all the details and make sure of the safety in detail. The other concern is the incompatibility of license. In Rust community, MIT or Apache are more popular for further usage. For VST, Glicol can run in vst and support sample-level control: https://youtu.be/yFKH9ou_XyQ https://youtu.be/yFKH9ou_XyQ Still a POC for now, and I need to make the input working. But I am not very optimistic for many use cases in VST. I think two main goals for Glicol is collaborative live coding in browsers and quick prototyping on Bela.
  - ushakov 5y ago
    thanks for the write-up, now i get that you're trying to build Sonic Pi of Rust! btw., feel free to share on Rust Audio forum: https://rust-audio.discourse.group https://rust-audio.discourse.group also the VST integration is fire, i think people would build amazing stuff with it
    - chaosprint 5y ago
      I would say in terms of abstraction, Glicol is more comparable to Chuck, SuperCollider or Csound, yet written in Rust, with some priority towards collaboration, syntax ergonomics from music interaction perspective, following the trend of Algorave and Web Audio. These languages' audio engine has all been contributing as an audio lib. And for example, Sonic Pi relies on the audio engine of SuperCollider. Thus, Glicol's audio engine will soon be published as a Rust crate: https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol/tree/main/rs/synth https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol/tree/main/rs/synth Still, for the VST, I kinda feel that users may find it easier to use Max4Live or PD-VST (e.g https://github.com/pierreguillot/Camomile https://github.com/pierreguillot/Camomile) rather than a text-based language, since VST is already a graphic interface :)
0des 5y ago
"Written in Rust" is the new "brought to you by Johnson and Johnson"
- speed_spread 5y ago
  Dogwhistling for metal reductionists.
  - 0des 5y ago
    I'm not familiar with this term in this context, can you or someone help to fill in what I'm missing?
    - gpm 5y ago
      Pretty sure it's a joke about rusted metal.
      - bradrn 5y ago
        Except that would make it incorrect: rust is what forms when metal gets oxidised, not reduced.
warent 5y ago
Can you expound on the VST support? This can write code that compiles to a standalone VST? Or do you mean you provide a VST that can run this code? I make electronic music as a hobby and have wanted to make my own VST, but it has proven to be more pain than fun. This looks like a very promising candidate!
- chaosprint 5y ago
  I am wondering if you know some Rust? For now, Glicol can be used as a VST plguin, where you can write audo logic with Glicol syntax: https://youtu.be/yFKH9ou_XyQ https://youtu.be/yFKH9ou_XyQ If you want your own vst (with your name on the author and you can sell),you can start with vst-rs: https://github.com/RustAudio/vst-rs https://github.com/RustAudio/vst-rs Wanna some GUI, here is a template: https://github.com/DGriffin91/egui_baseview_test_vst2 https://github.com/DGriffin91/egui_baseview_test_vst2 In writing the vst, you may need some rust audio lib, you can search dasp, fundsp, or wait for glicol_synth published as a Rust crate (like pip or npm)
bradrn 5y ago
Let me repeat the comment I made two weeks ago when I first saw this: > Wow, glicol looks amazing! One of the few music languages I’ve seen which actually tries to balance low-level synthesis with higher-level sequencing. (The only other one I know of is extempore: https://extemporelang.github.io/ https://extemporelang.github.io/) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30753499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30753499] Upon seeing it again, I am pleased to report that my impression has not changed at all.
- chaosprint 5y ago
  Thank you! In the past two weeks I have been mainly working on vst and Bela board support and it works. update: another thing is that I added responsive design to the website and support for the safari. Really wish to get more feedback on that as to adapt to different browsers is really a painful process.
- spacechild1 5y ago
  > The only other one I know of is extempore What about SuperCollider?
  - chaosprint 5y ago
    As far as I know, SC is based on UGens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_generator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_generator), but if you want to have sample-level control you need to precompile your node. This is discussion is quite relevant: https://github.com/grame-cncm/faust/issues/685 https://github.com/grame-cncm/faust/issues/685 In Glicol, you can use different node directly as UGens and you can also define your own `meta` node in real-time, one of my personal favourite feature of Glicol for live coding. Yet there are some limitations so far, as embedding Rhai.rs syntax significantly limits the audio performance. I will try to develop another meta-syntax for defining meta nodes in the future.
    - spacechild1 5y ago
      > In Glicol, you can use different node directly as UGens and you can also define your own `meta` node in real-time, That's cool! FWIW, Mads has been working on a Faust UGen that can compile Faust code on the fly: https://github.com/madskjeldgaard/faustgen-supercollider https://github.com/madskjeldgaard/faustgen-supercollider Also, there is an open-source implementation of Reaper's JSFX language: https://github.com/asb2m10/jsusfx https://github.com/asb2m10/jsusfx. The Repo already contains Max and Pd objects. I have been thinking of contributing a SuperCollider UGen, but there are so many other things on my list :-)
chaosprint 5y ago
Well, today I added a new feature with a video demo: Live Coding Dattorro Plate Reverb in Your Favourite DAWs with Glicol VST Plugin https://youtu.be/tmmBhBmIEW0 https://youtu.be/tmmBhBmIEW0 More videos on this list: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT4REhRBWaOOrLQxCg5Uw97gEpN-woo1c https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT4REhRBWaOOrLQxCg5Uw97gE...
heuermh 5y ago
I've been writing effects in ChucK for several years but have found it difficult to deploy to various platforms of interest. Is it possible to build an effect written in Glicol into an iOS app or effect (AudioUnit v3? haven't been keeping up)? LV2 plugin to run on MOD devices guitar pedals? VCVRack, which has its own plugin interface? onto a Rasp Pi Zero?
- chaosprint 5y ago
  In theory, many of these can all be done with combination of Glicol and other Rust crates (packages) such as: https://docs.rs/lv2/latest/lv2/ https://docs.rs/lv2/latest/lv2/ https://docs.rs/vst/latest/vst/ https://docs.rs/vst/latest/vst/ And for Rasp Pi or Bela, Glicol can also help. Although these are all work in progress, I personally really enjoy coding in Rust and the package management is fantastic. However, VCVRack seems to be a different story; Faust may be a better option: https://faustdoc.grame.fr/workshops/2020-11-21-faust-vcvrack/ https://faustdoc.grame.fr/workshops/2020-11-21-faust-vcvrack...

58 points by chaosprint 5y ago

Hi HN, It has been about 2 years since I started developing Glicol. You can try it here: https://glicol.org https://glicol.org Recently I added support for VST, Bela and responsive design for mobile devices. It would be great if you can try and give me some feedback here or in the GitHub repo: https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol Thanks!

lejboua 5y ago
I have zero musical knowledge or experience and I just spent the last 30 minutes tweaking the examples in the project homepage. Super fun, incredible project! Thanks for this!
- chaosprint 5y ago
  Thank you for your reply. It's really nice to hear it.

ushakov 5y ago

for anybody interested: you could also write DSP code in Faust and convert it to rust to use in your VST!

chaosprint 5y ago
Thanks for your reply! Faust is a great project, and it is really versatile. However, I have checked some generated Rust code from Faust and found it relies on some unsafe blocks there. My concern is if one wishes to use Rust for audio, it doesn't make a lot of sense not to control all the details and make sure of the safety in detail. The other concern is the incompatibility of license. In Rust community, MIT or Apache are more popular for further usage. For VST, Glicol can run in vst and support sample-level control: https://youtu.be/yFKH9ou_XyQ https://youtu.be/yFKH9ou_XyQ Still a POC for now, and I need to make the input working. But I am not very optimistic for many use cases in VST. I think two main goals for Glicol is collaborative live coding in browsers and quick prototyping on Bela.
- ushakov 5y ago
  thanks for the write-up, now i get that you're trying to build Sonic Pi of Rust! btw., feel free to share on Rust Audio forum: https://rust-audio.discourse.group https://rust-audio.discourse.group also the VST integration is fire, i think people would build amazing stuff with it
  - chaosprint 5y ago
    I would say in terms of abstraction, Glicol is more comparable to Chuck, SuperCollider or Csound, yet written in Rust, with some priority towards collaboration, syntax ergonomics from music interaction perspective, following the trend of Algorave and Web Audio. These languages' audio engine has all been contributing as an audio lib. And for example, Sonic Pi relies on the audio engine of SuperCollider. Thus, Glicol's audio engine will soon be published as a Rust crate: https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol/tree/main/rs/synth https://github.com/chaosprint/glicol/tree/main/rs/synth Still, for the VST, I kinda feel that users may find it easier to use Max4Live or PD-VST (e.g https://github.com/pierreguillot/Camomile https://github.com/pierreguillot/Camomile) rather than a text-based language, since VST is already a graphic interface :)

0des 5y ago

"Written in Rust" is the new "brought to you by Johnson and Johnson"

speed_spread 5y ago
Dogwhistling for metal reductionists.
- 0des 5y ago
  I'm not familiar with this term in this context, can you or someone help to fill in what I'm missing?
  - gpm 5y ago
    Pretty sure it's a joke about rusted metal.
    - bradrn 5y ago
      Except that would make it incorrect: rust is what forms when metal gets oxidised, not reduced.

warent 5y ago

Can you expound on the VST support? This can write code that compiles to a standalone VST? Or do you mean you provide a VST that can run this code? I make electronic music as a hobby and have wanted to make my own VST, but it has proven to be more pain than fun. This looks like a very promising candidate!

chaosprint 5y ago
I am wondering if you know some Rust? For now, Glicol can be used as a VST plguin, where you can write audo logic with Glicol syntax: https://youtu.be/yFKH9ou_XyQ https://youtu.be/yFKH9ou_XyQ If you want your own vst (with your name on the author and you can sell),you can start with vst-rs: https://github.com/RustAudio/vst-rs https://github.com/RustAudio/vst-rs Wanna some GUI, here is a template: https://github.com/DGriffin91/egui_baseview_test_vst2 https://github.com/DGriffin91/egui_baseview_test_vst2 In writing the vst, you may need some rust audio lib, you can search dasp, fundsp, or wait for glicol_synth published as a Rust crate (like pip or npm)

bradrn 5y ago

Let me repeat the comment I made two weeks ago when I first saw this: > Wow, glicol looks amazing! One of the few music languages I’ve seen which actually tries to balance low-level synthesis with higher-level sequencing. (The only other one I know of is extempore: https://extemporelang.github.io/ https://extemporelang.github.io/) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30753499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30753499] Upon seeing it again, I am pleased to report that my impression has not changed at all.

chaosprint 5y ago
Thank you! In the past two weeks I have been mainly working on vst and Bela board support and it works. update: another thing is that I added responsive design to the website and support for the safari. Really wish to get more feedback on that as to adapt to different browsers is really a painful process.
spacechild1 5y ago
> The only other one I know of is extempore What about SuperCollider?
- chaosprint 5y ago
  As far as I know, SC is based on UGens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_generator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_generator), but if you want to have sample-level control you need to precompile your node. This is discussion is quite relevant: https://github.com/grame-cncm/faust/issues/685 https://github.com/grame-cncm/faust/issues/685 In Glicol, you can use different node directly as UGens and you can also define your own `meta` node in real-time, one of my personal favourite feature of Glicol for live coding. Yet there are some limitations so far, as embedding Rhai.rs syntax significantly limits the audio performance. I will try to develop another meta-syntax for defining meta nodes in the future.
  - spacechild1 5y ago
    > In Glicol, you can use different node directly as UGens and you can also define your own `meta` node in real-time, That's cool! FWIW, Mads has been working on a Faust UGen that can compile Faust code on the fly: https://github.com/madskjeldgaard/faustgen-supercollider https://github.com/madskjeldgaard/faustgen-supercollider Also, there is an open-source implementation of Reaper's JSFX language: https://github.com/asb2m10/jsusfx https://github.com/asb2m10/jsusfx. The Repo already contains Max and Pd objects. I have been thinking of contributing a SuperCollider UGen, but there are so many other things on my list :-)

chaosprint 5y ago

Well, today I added a new feature with a video demo: Live Coding Dattorro Plate Reverb in Your Favourite DAWs with Glicol VST Plugin https://youtu.be/tmmBhBmIEW0 https://youtu.be/tmmBhBmIEW0 More videos on this list: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT4REhRBWaOOrLQxCg5Uw97gEpN-woo1c https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT4REhRBWaOOrLQxCg5Uw97gE...

heuermh 5y ago

I've been writing effects in ChucK for several years but have found it difficult to deploy to various platforms of interest. Is it possible to build an effect written in Glicol into an iOS app or effect (AudioUnit v3? haven't been keeping up)? LV2 plugin to run on MOD devices guitar pedals? VCVRack, which has its own plugin interface? onto a Rasp Pi Zero?

chaosprint 5y ago
In theory, many of these can all be done with combination of Glicol and other Rust crates (packages) such as: https://docs.rs/lv2/latest/lv2/ https://docs.rs/lv2/latest/lv2/ https://docs.rs/vst/latest/vst/ https://docs.rs/vst/latest/vst/ And for Rasp Pi or Bela, Glicol can also help. Although these are all work in progress, I personally really enjoy coding in Rust and the package management is fantastic. However, VCVRack seems to be a different story; Faust may be a better option: https://faustdoc.grame.fr/workshops/2020-11-21-faust-vcvrack/ https://faustdoc.grame.fr/workshops/2020-11-21-faust-vcvrack...