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Thought-provoking post, thanks. Especially the part about maybe generating specifically tailored material to "train" folks. Although, while obviously moral ins

Thought-provoking post, thanks. Especially the part about maybe generating specifically tailored material to "train" folks. Although, while obviously moral instead of immoral like "gay conversion therapy", I wonder if it would be just as ineffective. and would cut down on the motivating factors to produce authentic CP (for which original production is often a requirement to join CP distribution rings). Hmmmmm. Will machine-generated "normal" (i.e., non-CP) porn really eliminate the motivating factors to produce normal porn? I obviously can't speak for enjoyers of CP. But when watching normal porn, I think part of the thrill for many/most people is knowing that what's happening is real. Another potential risk is that a flood of publicly available, machine-generated CP might actually help the producers and distributors of real CP by serving as camouflage. Finding and prosecuting the people who make real CP is difficult enough already. Now, imagine if the good guys couldn't even reliably tell what was real and there were 100000x as many fake images as real ones floating around. Yikes.

danbruc 5y ago
But when watching normal porn, I think part of the thrill for many/most people is knowing that what's happening is real. Unless you understand real to just mean that actual humans were involved, describing porn as real seems to be a bit of a stretch more often than not.
- JohnBooty 5y ago
  I gave my audience a bit of credit there. I am assuming that any adult reading this understands that professional porn is quite different from the sex most of us experience in our private lives in a number of major ways, both emotionally and physically.[1] But anyway, yes. By "real" I mean "real human beings, having real sex." ---- [1] There is a lot of homemade, amateur porn on the big well-known porn sites and it seems quite popular, and much of that is closer to what typical folks do at home. But that's beside the point.
Szpadel 5y ago
> Finding and prosecuting the people who make real CP is difficult enough already. let's assume that AI generated CP should be illegal. Does it mean that possession of model that is able to generate such content should also be illegal? If not, then it's easy to just generate content on the fly and do not store anything illegal. But when we make model illegal, then how do you enforce that? Models are versatile enough to generate a lot of different content, how do you decide if ability to generate illegal content is just a byproduct or purpose of that model?
- JohnBooty 5y ago
  >> Finding and prosecuting the people who >> make real CP is difficult enough already. > let's assume that AI generated CP should be illegal Well that's a big assumption, lol. I definitely agree that it would be impossible to enforce, for the reasons you say. I personally would not be in favor of such a law at all. Partially because it's unenforceable as you say, and partially on principle. The argument against real CP is extremely clear: we deem it abominable because it harms children. That doesn't apply to computer-generated CP, or the models/tools used to produce it.
  - Ajedi32 5y ago
    I think you might be able to argue AI generated CP could cause indirect harm by feeding those desires and making people more likely to act on them, but I agree that's a far more fragile argument.
    - JohnBooty 5y ago
      I think there's a big range of possibilities there and they're not mutually exclusive. There's the possibility that watching FOO directly encourages viewers to do FOO in real life. Like you said, this is the most fragile. I think clearly this is true in some cases -- most of us have seen a food commercial on TV and thought, "I could really go for that right now." I'm less convinced that it's true for something like pedophilia: the average person will be revolted by it, not encouraged, unless they already are into that kind of awful thing. There's the possibility that watching FOO doesn't directly encourage viewers to do FOO, but serves to kind of normalize it. I think this happens a lot, but I think it takes a carefully crafted context and message. There's the possibility that AI generated CP could actually helps children, by providing a safe outlet for pedophiles so that they wouldn't need to do heinous shit in real life. I recall reading studies that instances of (adult) rape in societies were inversely correlated with the availability of (adult) pornography, with a possible explanation being that porn provided a safe outlet for people who weren't getting the kind of sex they wanted.
PoignardAzur 5y ago
> But when watching normal porn, I think part of the thrill for many/most people is knowing that what's happening is real. I'm wondering how true that is. Obviously, lots of people consume hentai, and platforms like Danbooru are immensely popular. Also, speaking personally... some of the porn that I've consumed that felt the most "real" was 3D animations where the only real humans behind them were the SFM artists (and voice actors). These artists felt free to do scenes with, like, actual cinematography, with flirting and teasing and emotions between the characters, of a kind you never see even in softcore live-action porn. So I do wonder how much potential AI generation has for completely substituting large parts of the porn industry.

danbruc 5y ago

But when watching normal porn, I think part of the thrill for many/most people is knowing that what's happening is real. Unless you understand real to just mean that actual humans were involved, describing porn as real seems to be a bit of a stretch more often than not.

JohnBooty 5y ago
I gave my audience a bit of credit there. I am assuming that any adult reading this understands that professional porn is quite different from the sex most of us experience in our private lives in a number of major ways, both emotionally and physically.[1] But anyway, yes. By "real" I mean "real human beings, having real sex." ---- [1] There is a lot of homemade, amateur porn on the big well-known porn sites and it seems quite popular, and much of that is closer to what typical folks do at home. But that's beside the point.

Szpadel 5y ago

> Finding and prosecuting the people who make real CP is difficult enough already. let's assume that AI generated CP should be illegal. Does it mean that possession of model that is able to generate such content should also be illegal? If not, then it's easy to just generate content on the fly and do not store anything illegal. But when we make model illegal, then how do you enforce that? Models are versatile enough to generate a lot of different content, how do you decide if ability to generate illegal content is just a byproduct or purpose of that model?

JohnBooty 5y ago
>> Finding and prosecuting the people who >> make real CP is difficult enough already. > let's assume that AI generated CP should be illegal Well that's a big assumption, lol. I definitely agree that it would be impossible to enforce, for the reasons you say. I personally would not be in favor of such a law at all. Partially because it's unenforceable as you say, and partially on principle. The argument against real CP is extremely clear: we deem it abominable because it harms children. That doesn't apply to computer-generated CP, or the models/tools used to produce it.
- Ajedi32 5y ago
  I think you might be able to argue AI generated CP could cause indirect harm by feeding those desires and making people more likely to act on them, but I agree that's a far more fragile argument.
  - JohnBooty 5y ago
    I think there's a big range of possibilities there and they're not mutually exclusive. There's the possibility that watching FOO directly encourages viewers to do FOO in real life. Like you said, this is the most fragile. I think clearly this is true in some cases -- most of us have seen a food commercial on TV and thought, "I could really go for that right now." I'm less convinced that it's true for something like pedophilia: the average person will be revolted by it, not encouraged, unless they already are into that kind of awful thing. There's the possibility that watching FOO doesn't directly encourage viewers to do FOO, but serves to kind of normalize it. I think this happens a lot, but I think it takes a carefully crafted context and message. There's the possibility that AI generated CP could actually helps children, by providing a safe outlet for pedophiles so that they wouldn't need to do heinous shit in real life. I recall reading studies that instances of (adult) rape in societies were inversely correlated with the availability of (adult) pornography, with a possible explanation being that porn provided a safe outlet for people who weren't getting the kind of sex they wanted.

PoignardAzur 5y ago

> But when watching normal porn, I think part of the thrill for many/most people is knowing that what's happening is real. I'm wondering how true that is. Obviously, lots of people consume hentai, and platforms like Danbooru are immensely popular. Also, speaking personally... some of the porn that I've consumed that felt the most "real" was 3D animations where the only real humans behind them were the SFM artists (and voice actors). These artists felt free to do scenes with, like, actual cinematography, with flirting and teasing and emotions between the characters, of a kind you never see even in softcore live-action porn. So I do wonder how much potential AI generation has for completely substituting large parts of the porn industry.