5 ms·

> I worked for GCP for several years before. Impact in promo is defined within the same group Did you personally go through promo from L6 to 7 or L7 to 8 sinc

> I worked for GCP for several years before. Impact in promo is defined within the same group Did you personally go through promo from L6 to 7 or L7 to 8 since that's what the OP thread is about?(or have seen the process from sufficiently close). I can see how your description of impact & promo would work when there's enough people inside the group to compare from (i.e other L4s, L5s, L6s), but when going L7 & L8 there might not be enough people in the group. Plus the folks at that level would be the one defining the goals, so it seems logical that they can't get promoted on that criteria.

joshuamorton 5y ago
Up through 7 is defined within the same group for Cloud, afaik, which is almost certainly the relevant portion of the company. > Plus the folks at that level would be the one defining the goals, so it seems logical that they can't get promoted on that criteria. Fwiw you start defining goals and L6 (or even 5), that's one of the defining characteristic of 6 vs. 5, you can't get to 6 from execution alone, you need to be setting roadmaps that impact beyond your team. And at 7 and 8, the scope of both people and technology get's larger. A strong-L7/just promo'd L8 would probably be expected to exert direct influence over an organization of around 100 fulltime engineers (caveat: I'm saying this from below, but it fits what I've seen). Which is to say that the positions in k8s that qualify for L7/L8 promo-worthy work are to a first approximation, just the steering committee. And that looks like it's working as intended: the steering committee is full of people who are Principal or Distinguished (or more in some cases) engineers and manager equivalents from a variety of companies.
- webmaven 5y ago
  > Which is to say that the positions in k8s that qualify for L7/L8 promo-worthy work are to a first approximation, just the steering committee. So you are basically agreeing that an engineer who wants to advance to that level has to go and start a shiny new project (open source or not) so they are, by default, on the steering committee or the equivalent.
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    The k8s steering committee is a rotating set of 7 people with elections of 3-4 members every year. You need a sustained record of contributions and leadership to k8s, but no you don't need to have been one of the original creators.
    - webmaven 5y ago
      What happens when the promoted person is rotated off the committee?
      - joshuamorton 5y ago
        The same thing that happens when any other L7 or 8 completes a major initiative. They find something else to work on. Many of the steering group members also lead multiple (in some cases, a dozen or more) k8s working-groups, but they presumably also have responsibilities related to their company (and possibly how their company uses k8s), so they'd focus more intently on those things, or perhaps they started some initiative while on the steering committee and continue to lead that particular thing even once off of steering.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    No. Leadership is not a frozen thing. And leading a tiny nascent project doesn’t have remotely the scope required to hit these levels. It is absolutely not the case that “start greenfield projects” and “grow to 7/8” are connected. And yeah, growth to these levels is hard. The expectation at Google is that the majority of engineers never hit 6 in their entire career.

joshuamorton 5y ago

Up through 7 is defined within the same group for Cloud, afaik, which is almost certainly the relevant portion of the company. > Plus the folks at that level would be the one defining the goals, so it seems logical that they can't get promoted on that criteria. Fwiw you start defining goals and L6 (or even 5), that's one of the defining characteristic of 6 vs. 5, you can't get to 6 from execution alone, you need to be setting roadmaps that impact beyond your team. And at 7 and 8, the scope of both people and technology get's larger. A strong-L7/just promo'd L8 would probably be expected to exert direct influence over an organization of around 100 fulltime engineers (caveat: I'm saying this from below, but it fits what I've seen). Which is to say that the positions in k8s that qualify for L7/L8 promo-worthy work are to a first approximation, just the steering committee. And that looks like it's working as intended: the steering committee is full of people who are Principal or Distinguished (or more in some cases) engineers and manager equivalents from a variety of companies.

webmaven 5y ago
> Which is to say that the positions in k8s that qualify for L7/L8 promo-worthy work are to a first approximation, just the steering committee. So you are basically agreeing that an engineer who wants to advance to that level has to go and start a shiny new project (open source or not) so they are, by default, on the steering committee or the equivalent.
- joshuamorton 5y ago
  The k8s steering committee is a rotating set of 7 people with elections of 3-4 members every year. You need a sustained record of contributions and leadership to k8s, but no you don't need to have been one of the original creators.
  - webmaven 5y ago
    What happens when the promoted person is rotated off the committee?
    - joshuamorton 5y ago
      The same thing that happens when any other L7 or 8 completes a major initiative. They find something else to work on. Many of the steering group members also lead multiple (in some cases, a dozen or more) k8s working-groups, but they presumably also have responsibilities related to their company (and possibly how their company uses k8s), so they'd focus more intently on those things, or perhaps they started some initiative while on the steering committee and continue to lead that particular thing even once off of steering.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  No. Leadership is not a frozen thing. And leading a tiny nascent project doesn’t have remotely the scope required to hit these levels. It is absolutely not the case that “start greenfield projects” and “grow to 7/8” are connected. And yeah, growth to these levels is hard. The expectation at Google is that the majority of engineers never hit 6 in their entire career.