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You think? There's syntax, grammar, and idioms. Of course there are significant differences, but there's significant overlap too. As someone not linguistically

You think? There's syntax, grammar, and idioms. Of course there are significant differences, but there's significant overlap too. As someone not linguistically inclined, I also notice myself looking for the name of the built-in method of a programming language I've used for 5 years. One might imagine a person with a better memory for vocabulary would be more capable of remembering the word/method name without needing to look it up.

antattack 5y ago
Once I learn how to write numbers - I'll be a mathematician? He might be making different sounds but the meaning is the same, with some culture specific exceptions. Programming is very little like communicating and it's a lot more like engineering.
- layla5alive 5y ago
  Programming, done well, is almost all communicating...
deleted 5y ago
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giraffe_lady 5y ago
"Does having an aptitude for spoken languages mean you'll have an aptitude for programming languages" is a different question from "are programming languages languages" even if the answer to both questions is the same. But linguists have approached this question from time to time! The main stumbling block is highly literate people are inclined to think of writing as language but it's not, quite. You can have multiple writing systems for the same spoken language, or be fluent but illiterate. But you can't comprehend a writing system for a language you can't speak, barring disability. So programming languages do have grammar, but not the other components of a language. Idioms in programming are a metaphor referencing linguistic idioms but structurally they aren't the same. Programming languages are more similar to writing systems, and a lot of linguistics findings do apply to them when taken in that context. You can play around with this idea if you want. Try to convey meaning to someone using only a programming language and nothing else. This is tricky because they embed our other writing systems, so you need to be careful not to accidentally convey meaning with eg variable names. Might be best to use something like brainfuck or piet that prevents that entirely. If it's a language in the "human languages" sense, you'll be able to convey any arbitrary meaning to another person who knows that programming language, even if you don't share a spoken one. What ends up happening is you can only do this if you reference a shared spoken language. So you can warp a PL into a writing system, but you can't use it alone to communicate.
- felipemnoa 5y ago
  >>But you can't comprehend a writing system for a language you can't speak, barring disability. I'm afraid I may sound stupid now. Why did you have to add the "barring disability" part?
- pcthrowaway 5y ago
  But meaning (and even understanding of the world) is shaped by the language. Think of how one language has 40 words for different kinds of happiness, another doesn't have the word blue. My question was "would natural hyperpolyglot be better capable of learning/using programming languages", and I don't think any of what you said tells us one way or the other. Yes, the things being expressed with programming languages are different from the things being expressed with natural languages, but they are both designed for expression and communicating meaning. I'd love to see studies on whether there's any relationship between being able to easily pick up and retain human languages, and the same for programming languages. edit: note, that I'm not even asking if someone with an aptitude for human languages would be good at using programming languages. Obviously the logical components, required for doing a lot of things with them, are a completely separate skill. I'm only wondering if he'd have an aptitude for learning a language, in terms of syntax, grammar, standard library and associated methods, idioms.
  - mchaver 5y ago
    Aside: I am not aware of strong evidence for linguistic relatively. Only some light stuff like some two words rhyme in a language so they are more likely paired in music and poetry than in other languages where they don't rhyme. It is much more plausible that human understanding of the world has shaped language. We can expand our vocabulary for our needs. Skiers of any language likely know more words for snow than speakers of their same language who only want to hang out on the beach.
  - erosenbe0 5y ago
    Programming languages are more akin to such things as musical notation, electrical circuits, architectural schematics, and legal writing. At least that's what a linguist suggested to me when I lamented my inability to learn some foreign languages as well as peers.

antattack 5y ago

Once I learn how to write numbers - I'll be a mathematician? He might be making different sounds but the meaning is the same, with some culture specific exceptions. Programming is very little like communicating and it's a lot more like engineering.

layla5alive 5y ago
Programming, done well, is almost all communicating...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

giraffe_lady 5y ago

"Does having an aptitude for spoken languages mean you'll have an aptitude for programming languages" is a different question from "are programming languages languages" even if the answer to both questions is the same. But linguists have approached this question from time to time! The main stumbling block is highly literate people are inclined to think of writing as language but it's not, quite. You can have multiple writing systems for the same spoken language, or be fluent but illiterate. But you can't comprehend a writing system for a language you can't speak, barring disability. So programming languages do have grammar, but not the other components of a language. Idioms in programming are a metaphor referencing linguistic idioms but structurally they aren't the same. Programming languages are more similar to writing systems, and a lot of linguistics findings do apply to them when taken in that context. You can play around with this idea if you want. Try to convey meaning to someone using only a programming language and nothing else. This is tricky because they embed our other writing systems, so you need to be careful not to accidentally convey meaning with eg variable names. Might be best to use something like brainfuck or piet that prevents that entirely. If it's a language in the "human languages" sense, you'll be able to convey any arbitrary meaning to another person who knows that programming language, even if you don't share a spoken one. What ends up happening is you can only do this if you reference a shared spoken language. So you can warp a PL into a writing system, but you can't use it alone to communicate.

felipemnoa 5y ago
>>But you can't comprehend a writing system for a language you can't speak, barring disability. I'm afraid I may sound stupid now. Why did you have to add the "barring disability" part?
pcthrowaway 5y ago
But meaning (and even understanding of the world) is shaped by the language. Think of how one language has 40 words for different kinds of happiness, another doesn't have the word blue. My question was "would natural hyperpolyglot be better capable of learning/using programming languages", and I don't think any of what you said tells us one way or the other. Yes, the things being expressed with programming languages are different from the things being expressed with natural languages, but they are both designed for expression and communicating meaning. I'd love to see studies on whether there's any relationship between being able to easily pick up and retain human languages, and the same for programming languages. edit: note, that I'm not even asking if someone with an aptitude for human languages would be good at using programming languages. Obviously the logical components, required for doing a lot of things with them, are a completely separate skill. I'm only wondering if he'd have an aptitude for learning a language, in terms of syntax, grammar, standard library and associated methods, idioms.
- mchaver 5y ago
  Aside: I am not aware of strong evidence for linguistic relatively. Only some light stuff like some two words rhyme in a language so they are more likely paired in music and poetry than in other languages where they don't rhyme. It is much more plausible that human understanding of the world has shaped language. We can expand our vocabulary for our needs. Skiers of any language likely know more words for snow than speakers of their same language who only want to hang out on the beach.
- erosenbe0 5y ago
  Programming languages are more akin to such things as musical notation, electrical circuits, architectural schematics, and legal writing. At least that's what a linguist suggested to me when I lamented my inability to learn some foreign languages as well as peers.