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> University Universities are almost a separate reality. Unless you happen to be dealing with someone who has prior experience in the private sector, they will

> University Universities are almost a separate reality. Unless you happen to be dealing with someone who has prior experience in the private sector, they will have no idea how businesses operate or how money is earned. It's typical to be dealing with someone who has been doing the same job for 20 years and never worked anywhere else.

rprospero 5y ago
It’s not necessarily that they don’t understand, but rather that they have very different incentives. I remember talking to one university purchasing agent whose senior manager kept a detailed account of how many of their vendors went bankrupt. If this percentage got too LOW, they were instructed to just stop paying out any purchase orders where the goods had been received. Any vendors upset at providing their services for free could take it up with the legal department. Or go bankrupt. Either way, every dollar unpaid to a vendor was a dollar back in a tax payer’s pocket. Ignoring these bills was a civic duty. A different university had a policy to prefer orders from small businesses for just the same reason. The local suppliers knew that, on any given job, there was about a 10% chance the university would never pay up. They could sue, but a) the legal department had handle thousands of these cases and had gotten pretty good at it, and b) they would be banned from any future bids. One percent of the time, some one would get stiffed twice in a row and go under, but, hey, if you aren’t okay with risk, then maybe the public sector isn’t the place for you. Anyway, that’s the prevailing attitude that I encountered. They are ACUTELY aware of how money is earned and will do everything in their power to stop you from earning it.
- dchftcs 5y ago
  Universities are truly rotten places.
- Hallucinaut 5y ago
  At least in the UK I don't think that attitude would fly given the requirements for timely supply chain payments. They actively encourage SME use in some fields and the ecosystem is richer for it. An attitude like you describe would be seriously damaging. How on earth does a legal department win cases where they simply do not pay for what they are contractually obligated to pay for? Sounds like a dystopian system.
deleted 5y ago
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inopinatus 5y ago
This is common in healthcare, too. Both sectors then suffer from decision makers being senior academic/medical staff who think very highly of themselves but actually lack any managerial acumen, offering a sterling demonstration of the Peter Principle in action.
- plettsy 5y ago
  I just spent a year at a health tech startup where the primary prospects and customers were tier 1 hospitals. Never, ever, ever in my life have I seen so much ego paired with such little decision making authority. Pair that with an incredible lack of communication across each hospital group, jaded IT workers who see innovation as a threat to their jobs, and a sales cycle that can sit around 12 months on average, and voila: I present to you hell on earth. This is still somehow ignoring how each hospital asks for insane amounts of personal customization on the product, development of features that aren't even on your roadmap, and accounting departments that consistently choose to ignore invoices. Never again.
bgroat 5y ago
My brother is an academic and has roughly zero understanding of real world operations. Which isn't too surprising. He's exclusively been in classrooms since he was 4 years old.
ineedasername 5y ago
And apart from university folks often not understanding the business side of things, vendors don't understand just how different university business needs are from those of normal companies. Oracle, via PeopleSoft, made this mistake when they first entered higher Ed ERP. They were a disaster on product fit, and in at least one case ended in a lawsuit that involved claims of fraudulent "working" demos of functionality that literally didn't exist.

rprospero 5y ago

It’s not necessarily that they don’t understand, but rather that they have very different incentives. I remember talking to one university purchasing agent whose senior manager kept a detailed account of how many of their vendors went bankrupt. If this percentage got too LOW, they were instructed to just stop paying out any purchase orders where the goods had been received. Any vendors upset at providing their services for free could take it up with the legal department. Or go bankrupt. Either way, every dollar unpaid to a vendor was a dollar back in a tax payer’s pocket. Ignoring these bills was a civic duty. A different university had a policy to prefer orders from small businesses for just the same reason. The local suppliers knew that, on any given job, there was about a 10% chance the university would never pay up. They could sue, but a) the legal department had handle thousands of these cases and had gotten pretty good at it, and b) they would be banned from any future bids. One percent of the time, some one would get stiffed twice in a row and go under, but, hey, if you aren’t okay with risk, then maybe the public sector isn’t the place for you. Anyway, that’s the prevailing attitude that I encountered. They are ACUTELY aware of how money is earned and will do everything in their power to stop you from earning it.

dchftcs 5y ago
Universities are truly rotten places.
Hallucinaut 5y ago
At least in the UK I don't think that attitude would fly given the requirements for timely supply chain payments. They actively encourage SME use in some fields and the ecosystem is richer for it. An attitude like you describe would be seriously damaging. How on earth does a legal department win cases where they simply do not pay for what they are contractually obligated to pay for? Sounds like a dystopian system.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

inopinatus 5y ago

This is common in healthcare, too. Both sectors then suffer from decision makers being senior academic/medical staff who think very highly of themselves but actually lack any managerial acumen, offering a sterling demonstration of the Peter Principle in action.

plettsy 5y ago
I just spent a year at a health tech startup where the primary prospects and customers were tier 1 hospitals. Never, ever, ever in my life have I seen so much ego paired with such little decision making authority. Pair that with an incredible lack of communication across each hospital group, jaded IT workers who see innovation as a threat to their jobs, and a sales cycle that can sit around 12 months on average, and voila: I present to you hell on earth. This is still somehow ignoring how each hospital asks for insane amounts of personal customization on the product, development of features that aren't even on your roadmap, and accounting departments that consistently choose to ignore invoices. Never again.

bgroat 5y ago

My brother is an academic and has roughly zero understanding of real world operations. Which isn't too surprising. He's exclusively been in classrooms since he was 4 years old.

ineedasername 5y ago

And apart from university folks often not understanding the business side of things, vendors don't understand just how different university business needs are from those of normal companies. Oracle, via PeopleSoft, made this mistake when they first entered higher Ed ERP. They were a disaster on product fit, and in at least one case ended in a lawsuit that involved claims of fraudulent "working" demos of functionality that literally didn't exist.