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City Council: Russia brings mobile crematoriums in Mariupol to “cover up tracks”

14 points by type0 5y ago

trhway 5y ago
"Russian Guard" (Putin's version of German Nazi SS organization) has been disappearing people - activists, municipal leaders, etc. - on the occupied territories, and the mass grave in Bucha suggests what they have been doing to those people. Russia didn't expect to be kicked off, at least not that soon, so looks like they been using mass graves without even trying to hide the graves. Now it is clear to them that their time in Ukraine is running out and thus those mobile crematoriums.
- type0 5y ago
  Rosgvardia is more like Gestapo. I would call Wagner Group their real SS, it has people coming from outside of Russia in the same way that SS had. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group from Wikipedia: >> The company's name comes from Utkin's own call sign "Wagner" after the German composer Richard Wagner, which he is said to have chosen due to his passion for the Third Reich (Wagner being Adolf Hitler's favorite composer). Putin is basically a mini Hitler
  - trhway 5y ago
    Gestapo was a kind of police, just extremely brutal and politically targeted. Rosguardia isn't police, not even close, and in particular it doesn't do investigations. It is just an armed force that is applied against civilians. SS was an armed force directly under political command and outside of military command, and thus it was widely used against civilian population, in particular on occupied territories. The SS didn't do any investigations/etc. The Rosguardia is exactly like that - directly reports to Putin, and it is thus not subject to even minimum rules/regulation/oversight what the military is subject to. Thus Rosguardia has been used against Russian civilian population, and is now used against civilians on occupied territories, just like SS. Wagner Group is a a kind small special force outside of law. It can be used for anything of course. It hasn't been noticed though in massive pacifications (even if just for the reason of it being too small for that), its role has so far been more like targeted terror at various places in the world where Russia has visible and not so visible engagements. >Putin is basically a mini Hitler the "mini" part may unfortunately be just temporary as the things may just be starting, and Hitler didn't have nukes. And unfortunately Russian Nazism isn't limited to Putin and his cronies, it is the country level issue, and (while it may be just a failure of my imagination) i don't see a way out other than forcing the 1945 scenario onto Russia like it was done back then to Germany.
    - type0 5y ago
      It's seems that you are right. Speaking of disappearing activists and city officials I heard that a lot of that was done by FSB and that is "Gestapo" i.e secret police.
      - trhway 5y ago
        yes, FSB do provide lists of people to arrest, etc. and may "work" with arrested for intelligence/etc. The actual foot work on the ground is mostly done by Rosguardia. There is just not enough FSB people for that and they are more "valuable" (and their displeasure would be more dangerous to Putin) than the expendable Rosguardia bodies.
wikidani 5y ago
Although I am by no means trying to deny russian warcrimes on this conflict and the fact that it's a war of aggression. I'd like to take into account the fact that during pretty much every war and siege the amount of bodies on the street have been a cause for disease and as such, perhaps we should consider that these mobile crematoriums were brought to Mariupol with the objective to mitigate the spreading of diseases (and I'm not even saying they might be concerned for the welfare of the civilian population but they might be concerned for their own troops')
- type0 5y ago
  > but they might be concerned for their own troops') they are not concerned for the health of their troops, they've been digging trenches in the Red Forest - that alone is enough depiction
- trhway 5y ago
  Some of the bodies on the streets of Bucha were lying for several weeks - Russia didn't care. There are also reports where Russian troops didn't allow civilians hiding in the basements to take the dead out (as some weak/ill/elderly were dying in the basements from the conditions there) And technical approach like bringing specialized crematoriums wouldn't be a typical approach for Russians in such a situation - more typical (ie. simple and quick) would for example be to dig a large trench/hole by a tank and pile the bodies into the trench. The crematoriums is really to destroy evidence. >they might be concerned for their own troops that isn't a concern in Russian army. As an illustration - the Russian soldiers were digging and driving tanks in the Red Forest in Chernobyl without any PPE and without dosimeters. As a result over several weeks there many - like high tens or in the low hundreds - has already got acute radiation sickness, and many more are going to get very ill in the coming months/years from the ingested and inhaled alpha and beta emitters from the disturbed soil.
  - ghostwriter 5y ago
    > Some of the bodies on the streets of Bucha were lying for several weeks - Russia didn't care. Until and unless Maxar agrees to provide images from their satellites for any other date between 19th March - 3rd April, any reporting on the bodies lying on the streets of Bucha for several weeks should not be taken as truthful without further investigation. For some reason Maxar denied access to such images [1] [2]. [1] https://telegra-ph.translate.goog/Stoit-li-doveryat-sputnikovym-video-ot-Maxor-04-05?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://telegra-ph.translate.goog/Stoit-li-doveryat-sputniko... [2] https://telegra-ph.translate.goog/Situaciya-v-Buche-CHto-bylo-na-samo-dele-04-03?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://telegra-ph.translate.goog/Situaciya-v-Buche-CHto-byl...

14 points by type0 5y ago

"Russian Guard" (Putin's version of German Nazi SS organization) has been disappearing people - activists, municipal leaders, etc. - on the occupied territories, and the mass grave in Bucha suggests what they have been doing to those people. Russia didn't expect to be kicked off, at least not that soon, so looks like they been using mass graves without even trying to hide the graves. Now it is clear to them that their time in Ukraine is running out and thus those mobile crematoriums.

type0 5y ago
Rosgvardia is more like Gestapo. I would call Wagner Group their real SS, it has people coming from outside of Russia in the same way that SS had. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group from Wikipedia: >> The company's name comes from Utkin's own call sign "Wagner" after the German composer Richard Wagner, which he is said to have chosen due to his passion for the Third Reich (Wagner being Adolf Hitler's favorite composer). Putin is basically a mini Hitler
- trhway 5y ago
  Gestapo was a kind of police, just extremely brutal and politically targeted. Rosguardia isn't police, not even close, and in particular it doesn't do investigations. It is just an armed force that is applied against civilians. SS was an armed force directly under political command and outside of military command, and thus it was widely used against civilian population, in particular on occupied territories. The SS didn't do any investigations/etc. The Rosguardia is exactly like that - directly reports to Putin, and it is thus not subject to even minimum rules/regulation/oversight what the military is subject to. Thus Rosguardia has been used against Russian civilian population, and is now used against civilians on occupied territories, just like SS. Wagner Group is a a kind small special force outside of law. It can be used for anything of course. It hasn't been noticed though in massive pacifications (even if just for the reason of it being too small for that), its role has so far been more like targeted terror at various places in the world where Russia has visible and not so visible engagements. >Putin is basically a mini Hitler the "mini" part may unfortunately be just temporary as the things may just be starting, and Hitler didn't have nukes. And unfortunately Russian Nazism isn't limited to Putin and his cronies, it is the country level issue, and (while it may be just a failure of my imagination) i don't see a way out other than forcing the 1945 scenario onto Russia like it was done back then to Germany.
  - type0 5y ago
    It's seems that you are right. Speaking of disappearing activists and city officials I heard that a lot of that was done by FSB and that is "Gestapo" i.e secret police.
    - trhway 5y ago
      yes, FSB do provide lists of people to arrest, etc. and may "work" with arrested for intelligence/etc. The actual foot work on the ground is mostly done by Rosguardia. There is just not enough FSB people for that and they are more "valuable" (and their displeasure would be more dangerous to Putin) than the expendable Rosguardia bodies.

wikidani 5y ago

Although I am by no means trying to deny russian warcrimes on this conflict and the fact that it's a war of aggression. I'd like to take into account the fact that during pretty much every war and siege the amount of bodies on the street have been a cause for disease and as such, perhaps we should consider that these mobile crematoriums were brought to Mariupol with the objective to mitigate the spreading of diseases (and I'm not even saying they might be concerned for the welfare of the civilian population but they might be concerned for their own troops')

type0 5y ago
> but they might be concerned for their own troops') they are not concerned for the health of their troops, they've been digging trenches in the Red Forest - that alone is enough depiction
trhway 5y ago
Some of the bodies on the streets of Bucha were lying for several weeks - Russia didn't care. There are also reports where Russian troops didn't allow civilians hiding in the basements to take the dead out (as some weak/ill/elderly were dying in the basements from the conditions there) And technical approach like bringing specialized crematoriums wouldn't be a typical approach for Russians in such a situation - more typical (ie. simple and quick) would for example be to dig a large trench/hole by a tank and pile the bodies into the trench. The crematoriums is really to destroy evidence. >they might be concerned for their own troops that isn't a concern in Russian army. As an illustration - the Russian soldiers were digging and driving tanks in the Red Forest in Chernobyl without any PPE and without dosimeters. As a result over several weeks there many - like high tens or in the low hundreds - has already got acute radiation sickness, and many more are going to get very ill in the coming months/years from the ingested and inhaled alpha and beta emitters from the disturbed soil.
- ghostwriter 5y ago
  > Some of the bodies on the streets of Bucha were lying for several weeks - Russia didn't care. Until and unless Maxar agrees to provide images from their satellites for any other date between 19th March - 3rd April, any reporting on the bodies lying on the streets of Bucha for several weeks should not be taken as truthful without further investigation. For some reason Maxar denied access to such images [1] [2]. [1] https://telegra-ph.translate.goog/Stoit-li-doveryat-sputnikovym-video-ot-Maxor-04-05?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://telegra-ph.translate.goog/Stoit-li-doveryat-sputniko... [2] https://telegra-ph.translate.goog/Situaciya-v-Buche-CHto-bylo-na-samo-dele-04-03?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://telegra-ph.translate.goog/Situaciya-v-Buche-CHto-byl...