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> Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to ...study, change and improve the software. Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. As a

> Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to ...study, change and improve the software. Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. As an individual, free software is valuable for a me if I can modify it at will, say at most with one month work and without having to learn arcane techniques. However this is not the case most of the time, so using free software not so different from using a proprietary system. For example I type this on a Linux laptop, which is unable to enter a proper sleep mode even if it was possible on Linux 20 years ago. The fancy keyboard lights up its key every few minutes without clear reason. I am using the Chromium browser but it does not display correctly the non Western characters and when I make a right click, garbage appears. How could I modify all this within a month time frame or even a few years? It's impossible. The situation would not be different if I was using a proprietary system.

jcusch 5y ago
Why continue using that free software, given the issues, if it doesn't fit your definition of valuable free software?
- JPLeRouzic 5y ago
  I am not complaining, I am answering to "Free software as the freedom to ...study, change and improve the software." This is just not true for most modern open source software.
  - jcusch 5y ago
    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were complaining. I was just curious where else you feel the value lies in that software, if freedom isn't it?
    - JPLeRouzic 5y ago
      Maybe be it's just that I have advocated for open source at my company for a long time. I remember playing with and trying to improve smallC [0] in the 1980' when there was no GCC. Yet, at the same time, TurboC from Borland was an incredible product. I would be happy to have today a similar editor for Java and PHP. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-C
derekp7 5y ago
That brings up another thought I've had over the years. From an end user perspective, which is more valuable -- a Free Software program that is very difficult to understand and modify, or a non-Free program that has a well documented extension API? For example, if the world of web browsers consisted of a non-free browser that was ported to run on almost any platform that had a well documented extension/plugin system, vs. a Free web browser that was a mess of spaghetti code that no one would really want to touch, and didn't support any extensions -- which browser would be more valuable (both in general, and in specific ways)?

jcusch 5y ago

Why continue using that free software, given the issues, if it doesn't fit your definition of valuable free software?

JPLeRouzic 5y ago
I am not complaining, I am answering to "Free software as the freedom to ...study, change and improve the software." This is just not true for most modern open source software.
- jcusch 5y ago
  Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were complaining. I was just curious where else you feel the value lies in that software, if freedom isn't it?
  - JPLeRouzic 5y ago
    Maybe be it's just that I have advocated for open source at my company for a long time. I remember playing with and trying to improve smallC [0] in the 1980' when there was no GCC. Yet, at the same time, TurboC from Borland was an incredible product. I would be happy to have today a similar editor for Java and PHP. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-C

derekp7 5y ago

That brings up another thought I've had over the years. From an end user perspective, which is more valuable -- a Free Software program that is very difficult to understand and modify, or a non-Free program that has a well documented extension API? For example, if the world of web browsers consisted of a non-free browser that was ported to run on almost any platform that had a well documented extension/plugin system, vs. a Free web browser that was a mess of spaghetti code that no one would really want to touch, and didn't support any extensions -- which browser would be more valuable (both in general, and in specific ways)?