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> It's not necessarily support for prostitution that you see (with all the seedy implications that your edit makes) but support for any person to have autonomy

by slibhb 5y ago

> It's not necessarily support for prostitution that you see (with all the seedy implications that your edit makes) but support for any person to have autonomy of their body in whichever way they see fit, including making a living by selling access to it to other people. Great. Let's legalize selling yourself into slavery while we're at it. > Morality is not universal, so yours has no more value than anyone else's. Morality is universal, it's not mine though.

Manuel_D 5y ago
> Great. Let's legalize selling yourself into slavery while we're at it. This is a non-sequitur. A slave, does not have autonomy. Nothing in the parent comment supports slavery. You're trying to draw a false equivalence between consensual sex work and slavery.
- slibhb 5y ago
  The parent comment wrote: > [it's] support for any person to have autonomy of their body in whichever way they see fit, including making a living by selling access to it to other people There's simply no way you can claim that doesn't include selling yourself into slavery. Not a false equivalence and an extremely common practice around most of the world until recently. Usually you were paid after your term of slavery terminated. I understand why you're shocked. You just realized that you support slavery. The good thing is that you can change your mind and come around to not supporting the exchange of human bodies for money.
  - mariusor 5y ago
    > You just realized that you support slavery I think you're arguing in very bad faith here. I do not condone slavery, but yes, I condone the right of people to sell themselves into slavery. I'm not sure why you would perceive these two things as not* different, but nuance is very important when thinking about stuff. Let me ask again: are you sure you're not being blinded by your biases? edit: actually making sense this time.
    - slibhb 5y ago
      How on earth am I arguing in bad faith? You just admitted that you support legalizing slavery! Okay, fair enough, you're not encouraging people to become slaves. And it would involve voluntary sale of oneself into slavery. But I was fairly close to the mark. Also, questions have to be asked: if a man is poor, is he really voluntarily selling himself into slavery? > Let me ask again: are you sure you're not being blinded by your biases? Perhaps it is "bias" that is keeping me from supporting the legalization of slavery. Or perhaps it's something else. I'm going with something else.
      - mariusor 5y ago
        > How on earth am I arguing in bad faith? Well: > You just admitted that you support legalizing slavery I have also admitted that I support abortion, assisted suicide, sex work and probably some other unsavory things that you can think of. I'm not sure why when I say "full autonomy over their bodies" you fixated on just the one.
        slibhb 5y ago
        Oh yeah, how unfair of me to "fixate" on your support for the legalization of slavery. Sorry about that!
  - Manuel_D 5y ago
    > support for any person to have autonomy of their body in whichever way they see fit For the second time, slavery by definition means depriving someone of autonomy. This directly contradicts what the comment supports. The comment directly opposes slavery, because it deprives people of autonomy. This kind of false equivalence between consensual sex and slavery is going to take this conversation nowhere.
    - slibhb 5y ago
      > For the second time, slavery by definition means depriving someone of autonomy. This directly contradicts what the comment supports. The comment directly opposes slavery, because it deprives people of autonomy. Read the rest of the thread. That commenter already admitted they support legalizing slavery. Supporting absolute autonomy clearly means supporting selling yourself into slavery. How could it not? Part of autonomy is choosing when and for what duration to surrender it.
      - vikaveri 5y ago
        Generally a slave is considered, by law, to be property and does not have most of the rights a free person has. You seem to suggest that any contract where a person sells his services to another person, institute or company, is slavery. Are most of us slaves since we sell our time to an employer? Are soldiers slaves? 'Selling' yourself on any terms you choose, should be possible, but unless you become property and lose your rights, it's not slavery and calling it that just diminishes the word.
mariusor 5y ago
> Morality is universal, it's not mine though. Who's is it then: Jesus, Budda, Kali, Jahveh, Mohamed, Musk, Thor, Ganesh, Gates, Bernie? I don't mean to be an asshole, but even if you are religious (which I take you are) you can't fault people that find moral relativism a worthy concept when there are so many points of view between different religions. And I understand that "faith" strips relativism from your own belief, but you beeing someone that posts on HN, you probably understand that not everyone can say the same thing and it's a little rude to not even acknowledge that.
- slibhb 5y ago
  > Who's is it then: Jesus, Budda, Kali, Jahveh, Mohamed, Musk, Thor, Ganesh, Gates, Bernie? I don't know. We should keep asking though. I would say that your comment: > Morality is not universal, so yours has no more value than anyone else's. is much "ruder" than mine: > Morality is universal, it's not mine though.

by slibhb 5y ago

Manuel_D 5y ago

> Great. Let's legalize selling yourself into slavery while we're at it. This is a non-sequitur. A slave, does not have autonomy. Nothing in the parent comment supports slavery. You're trying to draw a false equivalence between consensual sex work and slavery.

slibhb 5y ago
The parent comment wrote: > [it's] support for any person to have autonomy of their body in whichever way they see fit, including making a living by selling access to it to other people There's simply no way you can claim that doesn't include selling yourself into slavery. Not a false equivalence and an extremely common practice around most of the world until recently. Usually you were paid after your term of slavery terminated. I understand why you're shocked. You just realized that you support slavery. The good thing is that you can change your mind and come around to not supporting the exchange of human bodies for money.
- mariusor 5y ago
  > You just realized that you support slavery I think you're arguing in very bad faith here. I do not condone slavery, but yes, I condone the right of people to sell themselves into slavery. I'm not sure why you would perceive these two things as not* different, but nuance is very important when thinking about stuff. Let me ask again: are you sure you're not being blinded by your biases? edit: actually making sense this time.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    How on earth am I arguing in bad faith? You just admitted that you support legalizing slavery! Okay, fair enough, you're not encouraging people to become slaves. And it would involve voluntary sale of oneself into slavery. But I was fairly close to the mark. Also, questions have to be asked: if a man is poor, is he really voluntarily selling himself into slavery? > Let me ask again: are you sure you're not being blinded by your biases? Perhaps it is "bias" that is keeping me from supporting the legalization of slavery. Or perhaps it's something else. I'm going with something else.
    - mariusor 5y ago
      > How on earth am I arguing in bad faith? Well: > You just admitted that you support legalizing slavery I have also admitted that I support abortion, assisted suicide, sex work and probably some other unsavory things that you can think of. I'm not sure why when I say "full autonomy over their bodies" you fixated on just the one.
      - slibhb 5y ago
        Oh yeah, how unfair of me to "fixate" on your support for the legalization of slavery. Sorry about that!
- Manuel_D 5y ago
  > support for any person to have autonomy of their body in whichever way they see fit For the second time, slavery by definition means depriving someone of autonomy. This directly contradicts what the comment supports. The comment directly opposes slavery, because it deprives people of autonomy. This kind of false equivalence between consensual sex and slavery is going to take this conversation nowhere.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    > For the second time, slavery by definition means depriving someone of autonomy. This directly contradicts what the comment supports. The comment directly opposes slavery, because it deprives people of autonomy. Read the rest of the thread. That commenter already admitted they support legalizing slavery. Supporting absolute autonomy clearly means supporting selling yourself into slavery. How could it not? Part of autonomy is choosing when and for what duration to surrender it.
    - vikaveri 5y ago
      Generally a slave is considered, by law, to be property and does not have most of the rights a free person has. You seem to suggest that any contract where a person sells his services to another person, institute or company, is slavery. Are most of us slaves since we sell our time to an employer? Are soldiers slaves? 'Selling' yourself on any terms you choose, should be possible, but unless you become property and lose your rights, it's not slavery and calling it that just diminishes the word.

mariusor 5y ago

> Morality is universal, it's not mine though. Who's is it then: Jesus, Budda, Kali, Jahveh, Mohamed, Musk, Thor, Ganesh, Gates, Bernie? I don't mean to be an asshole, but even if you are religious (which I take you are) you can't fault people that find moral relativism a worthy concept when there are so many points of view between different religions. And I understand that "faith" strips relativism from your own belief, but you beeing someone that posts on HN, you probably understand that not everyone can say the same thing and it's a little rude to not even acknowledge that.

slibhb 5y ago
> Who's is it then: Jesus, Budda, Kali, Jahveh, Mohamed, Musk, Thor, Ganesh, Gates, Bernie? I don't know. We should keep asking though. I would say that your comment: > Morality is not universal, so yours has no more value than anyone else's. is much "ruder" than mine: > Morality is universal, it's not mine though.