5 ms·

This is one area America needs to legislate which I am usually against. There is no excuse but sleezy marketing to not show what something costs. I'd go far e

This is one area America needs to legislate which I am usually against. There is no excuse but sleezy marketing to not show what something costs. I'd go far even to make sure every price sticker is regulated and should include final sales price. That means, all taxes, all tips, everything. There is only one problem I see – sales taxes are state dependent so it puts a lot of burden on ecommerce/online stores to 1) Determine where the customer is from 2) Have a database of sales taxes for all states. But it can be done, I am sure. Tips should be made illegal and employers should fairly compensate their workers.

stonemetal12 5y ago
Sales tax is worse than state dependent, they are city dependent.
- ianmcgowan 5y ago
  State, county, and city - and separate "transit" taxes for county and city. And then most locations have a use tax which may be different from the sales tax. It sounds complicated, but I had to work on a project in India during the GST transition, and came to appreciate the relative simplicity of the US system.
sandworm101 5y ago
>> Tips should be made illegal That's about as dystopian as possible. Telling people that they cannot just hand money to other people might be the end of the entire concept of charity.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  Most of Europe operate just fine without tips.
  - JAlexoid 5y ago
    Let's be fair - most of Europe a tip is really optional. No one is depending on tips as the source of their income.
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  But tips aren't charity. They're even classified as income in tax codes. Let alone - tips are very often not "optional" Tips are literally a variable price co-pay for a service.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  Ok fair point, what needs to made illegal is the paying-below-minimum-wage to recoup it from Tips. Furthermore, I guess I want to remove the expectation of Tips from our culture. Maybe legislation is too strong but I love this aspect of society where Tips are truly optional. In America, we have a situation where I’ve seen waiters put on a facade of niceness which is so fake, and if you don’t tip, you’re an asshole. This implicit guilt needs to be made uncool. I tried tipping room maker in a Hotel in Japan and they promptly refused and handed me the cash.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  OTOH, it does seem a bit out of control. Now, when I go to Burgerville (a regional fast food chain in the PNW), the POS system asks me to enter a tip. Makes me say "No tip" if I don't want to. This is for a transaction that involves no service -- I stand there, they hand me a bag with food in it, I leave. It's a bit of a dark pattern. First it makes you actively say "No I don't want to tip for this" and then I gurantee plenty of people have that nagging thought in the back of their head that the food they get may be different depending on if they tip. After all, the tip is before you get anything.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    Yeah I get that when I pick up a pizza at the store (rather than having it delivered). The system asks for a tip amount, which I decline. It's there because the system also handles tips for the delivery orders, and there is no separate flow for paying for a carry-out order. I always tip, generously, for delivered food or table service. But I don't tip for an employee to simply hand me a carry-out order.
    - amerkhalid 5y ago
      I feel so awkward when not tipping at POS that I pretty much avoid carryouts from such places. I will happily drive to McDonalds.
      - rootusrootus 5y ago
        I wrote a more flowery version of exactly that in an email I sent to Burgerville. I.e. "I don't like being guilted into tipping for otherwise not tip-worthy service, so if you continue to do this, then as much as I like you're food I'll choose someone else who doesn't make me feel this way."
- Kwpolska 5y ago
  Tips should be optional. The US assumption of "everyone tips so we can pay waiters $2.13 an hour [0]" is a disgrace. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage
rootusrootus 5y ago
> Have a database of sales taxes for all states. But it can be done, I am sure. Not only can it be done, it is done. Companies don't have to brew up their own sales tax calculators, there are providers of that. Just enter the address, get the tax rate.
- amerkhalid 5y ago
  And, of course, during checkout process they would charge you correct sales tax. So obviously they have this information and can easily use it in marketing pages.
throwawayboise 5y ago
> it puts a lot of burden on ecommerce/online stores to 1) Determine where the customer is from 2) Have a database of sales taxes for all states. But it can be done, I am sure. Of course it can be done, because they are already doing it in the final checkout. They just need to reveal the number earlier in the process. If they have to ask for a location to do that, just say so --- e.g. "We need your zip code to show you the final price including tax"
chrismcb 5y ago
Sales taxes are city dependent. Even the county can get in on the fun

stonemetal12 5y ago

Sales tax is worse than state dependent, they are city dependent.

ianmcgowan 5y ago
State, county, and city - and separate "transit" taxes for county and city. And then most locations have a use tax which may be different from the sales tax. It sounds complicated, but I had to work on a project in India during the GST transition, and came to appreciate the relative simplicity of the US system.

sandworm101 5y ago

>> Tips should be made illegal That's about as dystopian as possible. Telling people that they cannot just hand money to other people might be the end of the entire concept of charity.

mbrodersen 5y ago
Most of Europe operate just fine without tips.
- JAlexoid 5y ago
  Let's be fair - most of Europe a tip is really optional. No one is depending on tips as the source of their income.
JAlexoid 5y ago
But tips aren't charity. They're even classified as income in tax codes. Let alone - tips are very often not "optional" Tips are literally a variable price co-pay for a service.
systemvoltage 5y ago
Ok fair point, what needs to made illegal is the paying-below-minimum-wage to recoup it from Tips. Furthermore, I guess I want to remove the expectation of Tips from our culture. Maybe legislation is too strong but I love this aspect of society where Tips are truly optional. In America, we have a situation where I’ve seen waiters put on a facade of niceness which is so fake, and if you don’t tip, you’re an asshole. This implicit guilt needs to be made uncool. I tried tipping room maker in a Hotel in Japan and they promptly refused and handed me the cash.
rootusrootus 5y ago
OTOH, it does seem a bit out of control. Now, when I go to Burgerville (a regional fast food chain in the PNW), the POS system asks me to enter a tip. Makes me say "No tip" if I don't want to. This is for a transaction that involves no service -- I stand there, they hand me a bag with food in it, I leave. It's a bit of a dark pattern. First it makes you actively say "No I don't want to tip for this" and then I gurantee plenty of people have that nagging thought in the back of their head that the food they get may be different depending on if they tip. After all, the tip is before you get anything.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Yeah I get that when I pick up a pizza at the store (rather than having it delivered). The system asks for a tip amount, which I decline. It's there because the system also handles tips for the delivery orders, and there is no separate flow for paying for a carry-out order. I always tip, generously, for delivered food or table service. But I don't tip for an employee to simply hand me a carry-out order.
  - amerkhalid 5y ago
    I feel so awkward when not tipping at POS that I pretty much avoid carryouts from such places. I will happily drive to McDonalds.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      I wrote a more flowery version of exactly that in an email I sent to Burgerville. I.e. "I don't like being guilted into tipping for otherwise not tip-worthy service, so if you continue to do this, then as much as I like you're food I'll choose someone else who doesn't make me feel this way."
Kwpolska 5y ago
Tips should be optional. The US assumption of "everyone tips so we can pay waiters $2.13 an hour [0]" is a disgrace. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage

rootusrootus 5y ago

> Have a database of sales taxes for all states. But it can be done, I am sure. Not only can it be done, it is done. Companies don't have to brew up their own sales tax calculators, there are providers of that. Just enter the address, get the tax rate.

amerkhalid 5y ago
And, of course, during checkout process they would charge you correct sales tax. So obviously they have this information and can easily use it in marketing pages.

throwawayboise 5y ago

> it puts a lot of burden on ecommerce/online stores to 1) Determine where the customer is from 2) Have a database of sales taxes for all states. But it can be done, I am sure. Of course it can be done, because they are already doing it in the final checkout. They just need to reveal the number earlier in the process. If they have to ask for a location to do that, just say so --- e.g. "We need your zip code to show you the final price including tax"

chrismcb 5y ago

Sales taxes are city dependent. Even the county can get in on the fun