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We get at least a couple of these reports in the news every month. I can’t help but believe it’s to create fear. The general public by and large cannot solve th

We get at least a couple of these reports in the news every month. I can’t help but believe it’s to create fear. The general public by and large cannot solve this crisis - it’s down to politicians to regulate and innovators to create and push new solutions and alternatives.

maxehmookau 5y ago
> I can’t help but believe it’s to create fear. I think cause and effect is mixed up here. I think the damage humans are causing to our planet is scary. Fear is just the emotion we feel when something scary is happening.
Steltek 5y ago
Politicians are not going to go out of their way to hurt industry unless the public are rabidly screaming for it. These reports are for the public to generate that push.
tony_cannistra 5y ago
It sounds like you're saying creating fear is a bad thing. Is it? Sure, people don't need or want to live their lives in fear. But, can you think of a time you changed your behaviour on account of something you were afraid of? I bet you can. I bet politicians really can.
- adamrezich 5y ago
  it's mind-blowing that people like you accept the idea that it's perfectly normal and fine for unelected members of international pseudo-government bodies to spread fear porn propaganda specifically in order to get citizens to enact change in their lives, And That's A Good Thing™. how the fuck did we get to the point where top-down emotional terrorism of the working class is lauded as some kind of grand achievement for furthering human civilization? insane
  - tony_cannistra 5y ago
    I hear your attempt at divisiveness here ("people like you"), but I suspect we're not so different. Nobody in this conversation is enacting "top-down emotional terrorism" –– not me, nor the IPCC –– nor is anyone claiming that's a good idea. In fact, that would be a very bad idea. (If there's one way to get folks to do literally nothing it's to paralyse them in fear.) If you read the report, you'll see concrete recommendations that are to be enacted at the governmental level, rooted in the reality of a changing environment. The consequences of failure are intentionally stark -- we made them ourselves. You're falling for the individualism trap. Climate change isn't your problem, nor is it my problem. It's everyone's problem. Everyone's problems are solved by high-functioning institutions. Motivating action to avoid consequences at society-scale is a great way to get institutional gears moving.
  - ericd 5y ago
    What you say might be true if this was politically motivated. But scientists generally aren’t, and they’re generally scared of what their data is saying.
    - adamrezich 5y ago
      ah right—scientists. I forgot that one cannot question the motives of the contemporary clerical class, as they are always pure of heart and mind and uniquely the sole exception to the "everything is political" nature of modern times. apologies for the heresy!
      - ericd 5y ago
        Come on. I'm really not a dogmatic "church of science" kind of person out there trying to burn the antivaxxer heretics or whatever, extremely far from it. Scientists are obviously fallible, it's the whole reason we have the scientific method. But I know a good number of scientists, and generally they're really the type of person that's interested in just figuring things out. And with those people in mind, I'm pretty sure this is not angling for anything except that we need to get on the fucking ball and decarbonize asap, because humans + resource shortage = conflict, and this is that taken to an extreme.
Juliate 5y ago
General public is where politicians and innovators are sourced from.
A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
I am oddly in agreement with you. It is not the same, but nuclear weapons suffer from the same issue. Things are way worse than only 30 years ago ( more countries have access now; there is at least one more country likely to add that capacity in a year or two ). In a very practical sense, things got much worse from doomsday clock perspective. But each time this fear is invoked and nothing happens, people get 'used' to the idea.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  I think more countries getting nukes is a good thing. It clearly prevents aggression by the evil imperialist countries. So I really think every country should have them and capability to deliver them to anywhere on the globe. For peace and prosperity against those who want topple their governments be they autocratic or democratic...
zmgsabst 5y ago
Yep, as planned. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8Zy-JwXr4&t=7m26s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8Zy-JwXr4&t=7m26s
jazzyjackson 5y ago
Consider Ronald Raegan's 1987 speech to the UN, famous for its mention of an alien threat. I'm convinced the UN really took it to heart that they need to invent a common enemy to unite the world toward countering an existential threat rather than fighting each other. > “Cannot swords be turned to plowshares? Can we and all nations not live in peace? In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity,” > “Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond," > “I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet, I ask you, is not an alien force already among us? What could be more alien to the universal aspirations of our peoples than war and the threat of war?” Personally I don't think the anxiety and mental breaks I've seen in my millenial and gen-z peers from the whole "11 years left to do something" is really worth it, what good is world peace if our lives are defined by guilt and hopelessness.
- basisword 5y ago
  >> Personally I don't think the anxiety and mental breaks I've seen in my millenial and gen-z peers from the whole "11 years left to do something" is really worth it This is what gets me. Children having “climate anxiety” is messed up. There is nothing they can do to fix it and they shouldn’t have to worry about it. The constant repeating news cycle of climate fear is clearly targeted at them.
ericd 5y ago
Tackling it involves lowering our standard of living. To have any hope of pulling that off politically, we need to care more about it than we do about our massive SUVs and our car-centric suburban lifestyles.
- basisword 5y ago
  >> Tackling it involves lowering our standard of living. Never happening. Young people are already facing a lower standard of living the previous generation. If you think they’re going to accept an even greater decline you’re not going to win. We need to get the current technological solutions (e.g. clean energy solutions) down to roughly the same cost as fossil fuels, and we need new technological solutions in areas where we can’t solve emissions without a reduction in standard of living.

maxehmookau 5y ago

> I can’t help but believe it’s to create fear. I think cause and effect is mixed up here. I think the damage humans are causing to our planet is scary. Fear is just the emotion we feel when something scary is happening.

Steltek 5y ago

Politicians are not going to go out of their way to hurt industry unless the public are rabidly screaming for it. These reports are for the public to generate that push.

tony_cannistra 5y ago

It sounds like you're saying creating fear is a bad thing. Is it? Sure, people don't need or want to live their lives in fear. But, can you think of a time you changed your behaviour on account of something you were afraid of? I bet you can. I bet politicians really can.

adamrezich 5y ago
it's mind-blowing that people like you accept the idea that it's perfectly normal and fine for unelected members of international pseudo-government bodies to spread fear porn propaganda specifically in order to get citizens to enact change in their lives, And That's A Good Thing™. how the fuck did we get to the point where top-down emotional terrorism of the working class is lauded as some kind of grand achievement for furthering human civilization? insane
- tony_cannistra 5y ago
  I hear your attempt at divisiveness here ("people like you"), but I suspect we're not so different. Nobody in this conversation is enacting "top-down emotional terrorism" –– not me, nor the IPCC –– nor is anyone claiming that's a good idea. In fact, that would be a very bad idea. (If there's one way to get folks to do literally nothing it's to paralyse them in fear.) If you read the report, you'll see concrete recommendations that are to be enacted at the governmental level, rooted in the reality of a changing environment. The consequences of failure are intentionally stark -- we made them ourselves. You're falling for the individualism trap. Climate change isn't your problem, nor is it my problem. It's everyone's problem. Everyone's problems are solved by high-functioning institutions. Motivating action to avoid consequences at society-scale is a great way to get institutional gears moving.
- ericd 5y ago
  What you say might be true if this was politically motivated. But scientists generally aren’t, and they’re generally scared of what their data is saying.
  - adamrezich 5y ago
    ah right—scientists. I forgot that one cannot question the motives of the contemporary clerical class, as they are always pure of heart and mind and uniquely the sole exception to the "everything is political" nature of modern times. apologies for the heresy!
    - ericd 5y ago
      Come on. I'm really not a dogmatic "church of science" kind of person out there trying to burn the antivaxxer heretics or whatever, extremely far from it. Scientists are obviously fallible, it's the whole reason we have the scientific method. But I know a good number of scientists, and generally they're really the type of person that's interested in just figuring things out. And with those people in mind, I'm pretty sure this is not angling for anything except that we need to get on the fucking ball and decarbonize asap, because humans + resource shortage = conflict, and this is that taken to an extreme.

Juliate 5y ago

General public is where politicians and innovators are sourced from.

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago

I am oddly in agreement with you. It is not the same, but nuclear weapons suffer from the same issue. Things are way worse than only 30 years ago ( more countries have access now; there is at least one more country likely to add that capacity in a year or two ). In a very practical sense, things got much worse from doomsday clock perspective. But each time this fear is invoked and nothing happens, people get 'used' to the idea.

Ekaros 5y ago
I think more countries getting nukes is a good thing. It clearly prevents aggression by the evil imperialist countries. So I really think every country should have them and capability to deliver them to anywhere on the globe. For peace and prosperity against those who want topple their governments be they autocratic or democratic...

zmgsabst 5y ago

Yep, as planned. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8Zy-JwXr4&t=7m26s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8Zy-JwXr4&t=7m26s

jazzyjackson 5y ago

Consider Ronald Raegan's 1987 speech to the UN, famous for its mention of an alien threat. I'm convinced the UN really took it to heart that they need to invent a common enemy to unite the world toward countering an existential threat rather than fighting each other. > “Cannot swords be turned to plowshares? Can we and all nations not live in peace? In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity,” > “Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond," > “I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet, I ask you, is not an alien force already among us? What could be more alien to the universal aspirations of our peoples than war and the threat of war?” Personally I don't think the anxiety and mental breaks I've seen in my millenial and gen-z peers from the whole "11 years left to do something" is really worth it, what good is world peace if our lives are defined by guilt and hopelessness.

basisword 5y ago
>> Personally I don't think the anxiety and mental breaks I've seen in my millenial and gen-z peers from the whole "11 years left to do something" is really worth it This is what gets me. Children having “climate anxiety” is messed up. There is nothing they can do to fix it and they shouldn’t have to worry about it. The constant repeating news cycle of climate fear is clearly targeted at them.

ericd 5y ago

Tackling it involves lowering our standard of living. To have any hope of pulling that off politically, we need to care more about it than we do about our massive SUVs and our car-centric suburban lifestyles.

basisword 5y ago
>> Tackling it involves lowering our standard of living. Never happening. Young people are already facing a lower standard of living the previous generation. If you think they’re going to accept an even greater decline you’re not going to win. We need to get the current technological solutions (e.g. clean energy solutions) down to roughly the same cost as fossil fuels, and we need new technological solutions in areas where we can’t solve emissions without a reduction in standard of living.