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Nice interview. I thought one of the most insightful parts was near the end: AG: The West is aiding Ukrainians while wiring Russia money every day for oil and

by nkurz 5y ago

Nice interview. I thought one of the most insightful parts was near the end: AG: The West is aiding Ukrainians while wiring Russia money every day for oil and gas. MG: Exactly. Biden's speech was not a great democracy speech because it was hypocritical. The accepted rhetoric of "We don't want to be pulled into a shooting war with Russia" translates as "We feel bad, but we'd rather Ukrainians die than risk the lives of our own citizens." I'm not saying it's completely wrongheaded, but it does undercut any rhetoric of solidarity.

TrackerFF 5y ago
IIRC, the rationale behind continuing to pay Russia for P&G is that the alternative would hurt Europeans more than it would hurt Russia. Energy prices are pretty bad at the moment, over here in Europe.
- pelasaco 5y ago
  beside that, it would undermine the popularity of the support to Ukraine if the consequences from that support are too harsh to the Europeans. I'm not saying that I agree with that, but if Diesel reaches 3 euro/liter, if Gas prices are too high, people will start to demand an end of this War, even if that it means Ukraine must support some not ideal condition (i.e lost of territory)
ShivShankaran 5y ago
>The accepted rhetoric of "We don't want to be pulled into a shooting war with Russia" translates as "We feel bad, but we'd rather Ukrainians die than risk the lives of our own citizens." I'm not saying it's completely wrongheaded, but it does undercut any rhetoric of solidarity. That's not the reason at all. The main reason and also why airspace cannot be closed is that NATO cannot have a boots on the ground for a conflict with a major power like Russia. Involving NATO in conflict is the ONLY reason why this war would turn nuclear. And very fast. It would be absurdly stupid to send troops to fight on behalf of Ukrainians. Biden and his son have investments all over Ukraine and he is just terrified of losing all of them. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukr... "Among those who had a stake in the outcome was Hunter Biden, Mr. Biden’s younger son, who at the time was on the board of an energy company owned by a Ukrainian oligarch who had been in the sights of the fired prosecutor general."
kjs3 5y ago
"We don't want to be pulled into a shooting war with Russia" translates as... Or...it translates as "We feel bad, but the chance of this escalating to a nuclear exchange with a state who's leader and mouthpieces are throwing around the N-word with abandon would mean far more people, not just Ukranians, are going to be impacted." But that wouldn't fit the narrative being pushed.

by nkurz 5y ago

TrackerFF 5y ago

IIRC, the rationale behind continuing to pay Russia for P&G is that the alternative would hurt Europeans more than it would hurt Russia. Energy prices are pretty bad at the moment, over here in Europe.

pelasaco 5y ago
beside that, it would undermine the popularity of the support to Ukraine if the consequences from that support are too harsh to the Europeans. I'm not saying that I agree with that, but if Diesel reaches 3 euro/liter, if Gas prices are too high, people will start to demand an end of this War, even if that it means Ukraine must support some not ideal condition (i.e lost of territory)

ShivShankaran 5y ago

>The accepted rhetoric of "We don't want to be pulled into a shooting war with Russia" translates as "We feel bad, but we'd rather Ukrainians die than risk the lives of our own citizens." I'm not saying it's completely wrongheaded, but it does undercut any rhetoric of solidarity. That's not the reason at all. The main reason and also why airspace cannot be closed is that NATO cannot have a boots on the ground for a conflict with a major power like Russia. Involving NATO in conflict is the ONLY reason why this war would turn nuclear. And very fast. It would be absurdly stupid to send troops to fight on behalf of Ukrainians. Biden and his son have investments all over Ukraine and he is just terrified of losing all of them. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukr... "Among those who had a stake in the outcome was Hunter Biden, Mr. Biden’s younger son, who at the time was on the board of an energy company owned by a Ukrainian oligarch who had been in the sights of the fired prosecutor general."

kjs3 5y ago

"We don't want to be pulled into a shooting war with Russia" translates as... Or...it translates as "We feel bad, but the chance of this escalating to a nuclear exchange with a state who's leader and mouthpieces are throwing around the N-word with abandon would mean far more people, not just Ukranians, are going to be impacted." But that wouldn't fit the narrative being pushed.